R57 relay

And USAPA was elected. Good move.

Wiskey Driver

Usapa was going to be elected anyway based purely on lies and emotion. The emotional reaction to the results of the arbitration that you begged for along with the lies that Lee Seham to caused that. Now if it helps you justify then by all means continue to blame the west for you inability to honor your word.

WD at AWA

Wiskey Driver

See thats the problem with you guys and half a$$ info. The JNC was a 90% complete with our contract proposal for the company PRIOR to the award. Kirby did not work for us because all the economic benefits went east. It was in the neighborhood of 15% rises for the east with 1% or so for the west. Now unlike the east we were willing to put it out for the pilots with our recommendation to reject it. The east MEC under threat of roll call refused put it out because they feared that most east captains would accept the pay raise seeing as how parity with the west is what they were most concerned with.

Now all these years later you get half the story then drum up "it was the big bad west's fault".

WD at AWA

R57 relay

In those posts you directly contradict yourself. You say that the putting the PHL LEC in trusteeship(which you claim credit for)had no effect on the USAPA vote, that they were going to win anyway. But then you claim that we would have voted for the crappy Kirby proposal that would bring us the Nicolau award. So no matter what we would have voted for USAPA, that was fighting to keep the Nicolau award at bay, but on the other hand we would vote for a lousy contract that would guarantee the Nic if only our MEC had let us? Some logic there. Perhaps you really were on the west MEC. The more you write, the clearer things become.

You guys like to talk about what was additional money was available according to Jack Stephan's testimony in Addington I. Let's look at what he, the EAST MEC chairman testified to with regard to your "almost done" claim on a contract.

“But I have never
seen our guys more resolute and agreeing on one issue. They
were very angry. They were very upset. They were very
indignant that this had happened to them."

“Q. How would you describe the pace of negotiations from, let's
say, 2005 up to the time of the Nicolau Award in May 2007?
A. Sluggish.

What do you mean by that?
A. We were clearing what we call in negotiations some of the
underbrush of our contract. Our contract has 29, 30 some
sections in it, each one dealing with a different part of a
pilot's life ranging from sick to what he's going to get paid
to what he's going to get when he retires.
We were clearing out some of the non-multipliers, if
you will, the non-money issues. What was left were the real
important things for our pilots, as they would be for anyone,
your dollars and your days off, and those were not yet agreed
upon.
Q. Did you ever approach the company, US Airways, on these
issues?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what, if anything, did you suggest to the company?
A. Prior to the award coming out -- so this would have
probably been about December of 2006, January time frame when
we were in joint negotiations with our brothers and sisters at
America West, the negotiating committee chairman from US
Airways and I, Doug Mowery, approached the company and said we
thought we needed to go away for a period of time before the
award came out, sort of a lockdown situation with the company
to get this thing done so that it would be behind us prior to
the arbitrator making his ruling.

Q. And how did the company respond to that proposal?
A. They were not receptive to that.

Q. Do you remember what the content of the Kirby proposal was?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What was it?
A. Well, it was something that was a non-starter. It was
woefully inadequate. I think that's a term -- I don't know if
John was there. I think Mitch Vasin might have been there at
that meeting. Both sides, even after the award came out, we
realized this was not going anywhere, this proposal. It kept
our defined contribution rate for retirement at 10 percent, and
I believe it only raised the current America West rates for
sort of narrow body equipment, only a few dollars into the
future.
It would have still kept us below the -- well below
the average median for airline pilots at the time and for the
life of the contract.
Q. I may not have been paying too close attention. Did you
say that both the East and the West MECs shared that view?
A. Absolutely. We were very concerned at that meeting that
the company leave with no misunderstanding about how we felt
about that proposal. We even rehearsed our, sort of, script
that we would, you know, speak to them when we got back into
session and everybody had sort of a role. “




“A. Not exactly. It's actually where we might be the furthest
apart in terms of finances and money. The big pieces get moved
at the end. So you may have -- in terms of sections of the
contract, you may have 90 percent of the sections done. Okay?
But the remaining ten percent of the contractual sections that
remain account for 98 percent of the cost of the contract.”

“I remember Scott's [Kirby-President] words specifically, and he said the
Nicolau Award -- he said let's face it. We were coming to sort
of crossroads here. We weren't getting anywhere with
negotiations. They got the message that we were -- that we
felt that their proposal was woefully inadequate. And he
started off his remarks by saying, let's face it. The Nicolau
Award will never stand as is, that there would have to be some
sort of meeting of the road for this whole process to move on.”



Q. The May 8, 2007, proposal was coined the Kirby Proposal,
right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it took the West rate of pay plus 3 percent, is that
right?
A. About that.
Q. And in your other discussions with the company, had you
received some informal indication that they might be able --
might be willing to go up as high as 7 or 10 percent above the
West rate?
A. Nothing in writing.
Q. That wasn't my question. Good answer.
Was there informal discussions, sir, about the area in
which the final contract could wind up?
A. There were informal discussions, yes.
Q. And you have -- I don't remember whether you used
loggerhead or log-jam or what the phrase was, would you agree
with me, sir, that the stall in the forward progress of
negotiations towards a single CBA was because the East Pilots,
the East MEC, would not accept the Nicolau Award?
A. Not totally.
Q. Or list?
A. I'm sorry?
Q. I'm sorry. I will try it over. I interrupted you. I
apologize.
Isn't it fair to say that the forward progress towards a single CBA was stalled because the West refused -- excuse
me -- the East refused to accept Nicolau List?


A. I believe that was one reason.
Q. Is that the primary reason that the East MEC did not move
forward with joint negotiations?
A. From this pilot, no.

R57 relay

"The Court denied the Motions In Limine filed by Plaintiffs seeking to prohibit testimony concerning why paragraph 10.h was included in the MOU (Doc 207)"

Now why would AOL want to keep that out of court? Could it be that the guys that wrote it are the ones that are suing over it? Naw.

How about an update tomorrow cacti?

"10h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for
changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in
this Paragraph 10."

Wiskey Driver

Its exhausting talking to you R57 because you have an argument and excuse for everything. Once again you take sound bites and use them as the basis for your foundation. I see it matters not that Jack Stephen was one of the key creators of the east mec's 3 prong approach to avoiding the arbitration award, an arbitration I remind you that your east membership begged for.

I am going back to my regularly scheduled programming as this crap with you and your kind is old and stale.

WD at AWA

R57 relay

I have an answer for your BS. I'm sure it is exhausting to be shown wrong all the time. I suggest you run to the AWAPPA board where you will get nothing but "High five Dude!"

Sliceback

Does anyone remember when the first shot was fired and by whom?
Was it at Fort Sumter? Waterloo? Agincourt? Runnymede?

R57 relay

Sparta! ;-)

Wiskey Driver

The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny!!

WD at AWA