Wiskey Driver

The east entered into this thing with zero sense of thanks. Not that they should thank the west pilots because we didn't save them but rather the deal did. Now you read how they can justify every action that had and continues to take place. According to the east they were never in danger of a Ch7 and that absent this merger they would have survived. Never once have they shown one once of fairness and to this day they strongly believe that we in the west should be honored to pay for their careers with our own.

The east not only refused to seek any other options other than DOH they demanded that we go to arbitration and they picked NIC! When we refused to entertain DOH they took that as some sort of personal attack. I have never seen in all my years in this business a group that behaves like the east that make deals then not honor them.

I can fully understand how you came to the point of the 3rd listers doing just that and in fact its happening on a smaller scale as we speak. If the merger fails this thing will still need to be resolved and in rapid fashion. The company can not continue with this as the TA has them pigeon holed unable to realize the full potential of this airline. I do believe however that the merger will go thru with AA and that it will eliminate much of the issues. The hatred between east and west will continue on for many years however.

WD at AWA

flybywire44

Hey Wiskey Driver—I hope this this gets settled soon. The industry needs those MOUvII pay rates.

Yes, I agree that East ALPA was not thankful, but neither did West ALPA seem all that much thankful—both groups assumed entitled negotiating postures and that hasn't changed much.

Absent a merger USAPA seems perfectly happy with status quo.

ncpilot624

I would hope if the merger fails the company will be much more willing to negotiate a new contract when they start losing all their 3rd list pilots. I mean with the current status quo why not go to Jet Blue. I have roots in an East hub or I would've applied to United already.

flybywire44

I've talked to quite a few third list and they seem content staying. Without the merger the upgrade will drop to 5 years on narrow body with wide body grown on the a330 & a350.

If Airways doesn't merge with AA this now, I do think AA will attempt to buy Airways post bankruptcy.

Wiskey Driver

Let me put it to you like this, its much deeper than what you see here on this forum. How you would like to have a pilot on your jumpseat telling you just how you are supposed you operate, the only thing is he doesn't work for you company?? This is just how the east mentality was. " Look you guys have never been to arbitration but we have so just follow our lead". That was the east MEC mentality. They are the chosen ones and we west pukes dont deserve to breath the same air!

Its hard and I mean DAMN hard for us in the west to be thankful when faced with so much arrogance from day one. I dont think we can ever respect them at this point and I know I can not.

WD at AWA

TXHillCountry

Some would suggest you have not experienced true arrogance until you deal with APA.

CanoePilot

I don't think they want or need us. They have enough airplanes on order to grow on their own.

If the Doj doesn't let us merge now what makes you think they will allow us to merge in a year or so?

FreighterGuyNow

185.
Further negotiations are required prior
to entering into
the JCBA with
respect to various subjects of bargaining, including, but not limited to:
a. Scheduling
b. Work Rules
c. Training
d. Retirement and Insurance
e. Vacation
f. International
g. Grievance
h. Sick
i. Medical
j. Scope
k. Leave

Wiskey Driver

Yeah that all sounds wonderful but how long before we are crushed to death by the big players at the poker table? Its all well and good to sit down at the poker table and get dealt pocket jacks. The feeling is I have to best hand until that river starts and you see ace, king, queen show up and suddenly you begin to feel that those jacks aren't so big after all. Airways does NOT have top pair but parker is trying to bluff and he has raised the ante high enough that the one non big player (DOJ) is willing to call. Now that a trial date is set Parker and airways is all in. Lets see if the DOJ goes all in or folds.

WD at AWA

WD at AWA

flybywire44

AA cannot compete with UAL, AA, SWA and Emirates long term. The AA network is still deficient of feed volume that only US Airways can provide. AA's expansion into the Pacific will be hindered with Airway's feed. Yes, AA has a massive aircraft on order, but without feed those aircraft will tend to be replacement airframes instead of growth. IE. AA's 787-8s won't be upgraded to -9s or -10s.

AA's stand alone plan calls for "organic" growth through, drum roll please, regional outsourcing. This is not ideal when you can just fly full narrow body airbuses everywhere more efficiently.

More info for the merger here:Tom Horton's presentation for standing alone plan is here (to which APA summarily said "no thanks.")
I think (and hope) we see a settlement.

DOJ will probably get half to 2/3rds of what they want, but I'm just guessing.