AOL update
10-14-2013, 06:43 AM
#1451
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
The problem is east pilots, specifically east pilots like you. You guys are complete lunatics that are living in a planet called denial, your post pretty much somes up what is wrong with you guys. It was a sad day when we merged with the worst pilot group in the industry.
10-14-2013, 10:35 AM
#1452
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 1,043
The problem is east pilots, specifically east pilots like you. You guys are complete lunatics that are living in a planet called denial, your post pretty much somes up what is wrong with you guys. It was a sad day when we merged with the worst pilot group in the industry.
Are you still here? I thought you would have had your stroke by now.
10-16-2013, 04:22 PM
#1453
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Usapa president deposition
Well lookie here, as incredible as this may sound, usapa's president has no knowledge of anything.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
10-16-2013, 04:58 PM
#1454
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Well lookie here, as incredible as this may sound, usapa's president has no knowledge of anything.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
INTERVENOR US AIRWAYS, INC.’S OPPOSITION TO USAPA’S MOTION TO CONTINUE TRIAL DATE (DOC. NO. 221)
Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS Document 223 Filed 10/16/13 Page 2 of 5
This is the sixth time in the course of this lawsuit that defendant US Airline Pilots Association ("USAPA") has attempted to avoid or delay resolution of the Plaintiffs’ claims on the merits.1 As was the case for its five prior attempts, and for the following reasons, USAPA’s pending Motion To Continue Trial Date (Doc. No. 221) should be denied.
First, as this Court recognized in granting US Airways’ motion for intervention, "US Airways has a ‘significant protectable interest’ in the timely resolution of the seniority dispute [and] the failure to resolve the seniority dispute in a timely manner may ‘impair or impede’ US Airways’ interest by frustrating the expected realization of ‘the operational and financial benefits from the combined pilot workforce.’" (September 18, 2013 Order (Doc. No. 194) at 4:3-6.) USAPA’s motion, if granted, would create a strong possibility that the long-running seniority dispute between the West Pilots and USAPA will not be resolved in a sufficiently timely manner, because USAPA cannot guarantee when President Hummel will be cleared by his doctor to travel to Phoenix and to
participate in a trial – USAPA can only say that it will be no sooner than December 2, 2013. (See Doc. No. 221, at 4:28-5:1 (all citations herein are to internal, not ECF, pagination).) Thus, USAPA’s assertion that, even with its requested continuance, "the
trial herein can still occur prior to the time that judgment in the DOJ Antitrust Action enters" (id. at 5:1-2) is sheer speculation. And if USAPA’s prediction turns out wrong and President Hummel is not able to participate at trial in December, then USAPA’s continuance request could result in delaying resolution of the seniority dispute until after the DOJ Action is completed and this, in turn, would impair US Airways’ significant protectable interest in expeditiously realizing the operational and financial benefits from a combined pilot workforce.
Second, USAPA’s request for a delay in order to ensure the availability of a "key" trial witness (Doc. No. 221, at 1:3) is inconsistent with its motion for summary judgment wherein USAPA stated that "the record demonstrates no genuine dispute as to any material fact." (Doc. No. 211, at 1:8-9.) Given this assertion, it is not credible for USAPA now to claim that President Hummel’s testimony "is necessary for the Court to have a complete understanding of the facts regarding . . . whether USAPA breached its DFR by entering into an MOU that does not require USAPA use the Nicolau Award in the McCaskill-Bond process." (Doc. No. 221, at 4:9-12.)
Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS Document 223 Filed 10/16/13 Page 2 of 5
This is the sixth time in the course of this lawsuit that defendant US Airline Pilots Association ("USAPA") has attempted to avoid or delay resolution of the Plaintiffs’ claims on the merits.1 As was the case for its five prior attempts, and for the following reasons, USAPA’s pending Motion To Continue Trial Date (Doc. No. 221) should be denied.
First, as this Court recognized in granting US Airways’ motion for intervention, "US Airways has a ‘significant protectable interest’ in the timely resolution of the seniority dispute [and] the failure to resolve the seniority dispute in a timely manner may ‘impair or impede’ US Airways’ interest by frustrating the expected realization of ‘the operational and financial benefits from the combined pilot workforce.’" (September 18, 2013 Order (Doc. No. 194) at 4:3-6.) USAPA’s motion, if granted, would create a strong possibility that the long-running seniority dispute between the West Pilots and USAPA will not be resolved in a sufficiently timely manner, because USAPA cannot guarantee when President Hummel will be cleared by his doctor to travel to Phoenix and to
participate in a trial – USAPA can only say that it will be no sooner than December 2, 2013. (See Doc. No. 221, at 4:28-5:1 (all citations herein are to internal, not ECF, pagination).) Thus, USAPA’s assertion that, even with its requested continuance, "the
trial herein can still occur prior to the time that judgment in the DOJ Antitrust Action enters" (id. at 5:1-2) is sheer speculation. And if USAPA’s prediction turns out wrong and President Hummel is not able to participate at trial in December, then USAPA’s continuance request could result in delaying resolution of the seniority dispute until after the DOJ Action is completed and this, in turn, would impair US Airways’ significant protectable interest in expeditiously realizing the operational and financial benefits from a combined pilot workforce.
Second, USAPA’s request for a delay in order to ensure the availability of a "key" trial witness (Doc. No. 221, at 1:3) is inconsistent with its motion for summary judgment wherein USAPA stated that "the record demonstrates no genuine dispute as to any material fact." (Doc. No. 211, at 1:8-9.) Given this assertion, it is not credible for USAPA now to claim that President Hummel’s testimony "is necessary for the Court to have a complete understanding of the facts regarding . . . whether USAPA breached its DFR by entering into an MOU that does not require USAPA use the Nicolau Award in the McCaskill-Bond process." (Doc. No. 221, at 4:9-12.)
10-16-2013, 05:53 PM
#1455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Undisputed Facts, ¶156.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
10-16-2013, 07:12 PM
#1456
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Well lookie here, as incredible as this may sound, usapa's president has no knowledge of anything.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
His deposition:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ontinuance.pdf
Best part is even though he knows nothing, usapa is trying to delay the trial because he can't travel to phoenix. Liars and cheats every single one of them.
My favorite part is the last page of lines 8-25:
(click for enlargement)
Undisputed Facts, ¶156.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
That being said, it is safe to say that US Airways desires a fast SLI with no mess. The AA pilots do NOT want Nicolai and on that basis I would expect Airways and AA not go to great lengths to facilitate Nicolai—this fact is worth remembering as we go forward.
My guess is Airways and AA are doing their best to limit liability and appear as neutral players while keeping the SLI waters less muddled with the ongoing East & West spy vs spy baloney.
I am truly sorry for the West pilots exposure to the possible incentives motivating APA, USAPA, US Airways and AA. But maybe no one has to lose in a newAA SLI. Maybe the arbitrators will get it right this time and everyone will be royally upset! Either way we should pray to God that there is a merger and a SLI no matter what the outcome!!!
This merger will set the stage for $350k top of scale wide-body captain positions in a decade and narrow-body salaries will appreciate proportionally. This merger stands to change airline dynamics in a way that will break the hold that airline management has in pattern bargaining.
The benefits of this merger would far outweigh the monies thrown away in legal fees by the East and West.
Don't keep ****ing into the wind for the sake of your pride!
Lovingly your devils advocate,
FBW
Ps. Why can't we be friends?!
Last edited by flybywire44; 10-16-2013 at 07:41 PM.
10-16-2013, 08:26 PM
#1457
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Undisputed Facts, ¶156.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
US Airways Position that the MOU Is Not the Single Agreement under the Transition Agreement
99. On February 28, 2013, well after the MOU was ratified on February 8, US
Airways denied a grievance filed by Pilot David Braid in part because “At this point in time we have neither a combined contract nor a combined seniority list.” USAPA Exhibit152, annexed hereto at Tab 43, at USAPA003588-89 (February 28, 2013, letter from
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President of Flight Operations for US Airways, to Captain Dave Ciabattoni, USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman).
100. In August 2013, numerous West Pilots filed protests under Section 22.C of the America West Pilots’ CBA concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list posted by USvAirways, contending that US Airways is required to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the MOU becomes effective. Undisputed Facts, ¶175; USAPA Exhibit 154, annexed hereto at Tab 8.
101. In August, 2013, in response to Section 22.C protests filed by Phoenix based pilots , US Airways stated as follows:
This will acknowledge receipt of the letter of protest you filed
pursuant to Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective
Bargaining Agreement concerning the July 1, 2013 seniority list
posted by the Company. In that protest, you contend that the
Company is obligated to implement the Nicolau Award as soon as the
MTA/MOU becomes effective. That contention is meritless, and your
protest must be denied.
Section 22.C of the America West Pilots' Collective Bargaining
Agreement only applies to disputes regarding a West Pilot's seniority
relative to other West Pilots as set forth on the West Pilots seniority
list. Challenges to the East/West integrated seniority list, which will
be created after there has been a merger and the federally-required
McCaskill-Bond seniority integration process has been completed, are
beyond the scope of Section 22.C.
Moreover, even if the Section 22.C process applied to disputes
regarding the future East/West integrated seniority list, your claimthat the MTA/MOU amounts to a single labor agreement obligating the Company to apply the Nicolau Award immediately is contrary to the express provision in the Transition Agreement (Section XII.B)
that any of the Transition Agreement's provisions "[m]ay be modified
by written agreement of the Association and the Airline Parties
collectively."
By its terms, the MOU constitutes a written agreement between
USAPA and the Company which modifies the provisions of the
Transition Agreement relating to implementation of an integrated
seniority list. Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU specifies that "US Airways
agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a
basis for changing the seniority list currently in effect at US Airways
other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10." The
Paragraph 10 process provides for seniority-list integration in
accordance with the standards and procedures of the federal
McCaskill-Bond law, and that process will not even begin until after
the merger has been consummated. Modifying the seniority lists
immediately, as you have requested, would violate the MTA/MOU.
10-16-2013, 08:33 PM
#1458
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
The AA pilots do NOT want Nicolai and on that basis I would expect Airways and AA not go to great lengths to facilitate Nicolai—this fact is worth remembering as we go forward.
10-17-2013, 04:31 AM
#1459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Yes, a USAPA filing, but a senior US Airways management pilot words. You seem to lose that distinction.
I agree with you about what the company says. They say it's ripe, it should be decided and you should have your own representation at MB. They don't say you should get to start with the Nic.
I've read elsewhere where one of your guys believes you will get your own representation, get the arbitration panel to punish the east and give you a better award and a gazillion dollars in damages. Everyone can dream.
We all agreed under the MOU to start over. No DOH, no Nic.
10-17-2013, 04:37 AM
#1460
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
R57 Relay, we know that it is perfectly normal for any American corporation to define an issue in one instance and then completely redefine the same issue in a different discussion. Ie. Airways may lie, cheat, and steal in the grievance process to delay paying up, but that does not mean they'll do the same later if the MOU II ever becomes effective.
That being said, it is safe to say that US Airways desires a fast SLI with no mess. The AA pilots do NOT want Nicolai and on that basis I would expect Airways and AA not go to great lengths to facilitate Nicolai—this fact is worth remembering as we go forward.
My guess is Airways and AA are doing their best to limit liability and appear as neutral players while keeping the SLI waters less muddled with the ongoing East & West spy vs spy baloney.
I am truly sorry for the West pilots exposure to the possible incentives motivating APA, USAPA, US Airways and AA. But maybe no one has to lose in a newAA SLI. Maybe the arbitrators will get it right this time and everyone will be royally upset! Either way we should pray to God that there is a merger and a SLI no matter what the outcome!!!
This merger will set the stage for $350k top of scale wide-body captain positions in a decade and narrow-body salaries will appreciate proportionally. This merger stands to change airline dynamics in a way that will break the hold that airline management has in pattern bargaining.
The benefits of this merger would far outweigh the monies thrown away in legal fees by the East and West.
Don't keep ****ing into the wind for the sake of your pride!
Lovingly your devils advocate,
FBW
Ps. Why can't we be friends?!
That being said, it is safe to say that US Airways desires a fast SLI with no mess. The AA pilots do NOT want Nicolai and on that basis I would expect Airways and AA not go to great lengths to facilitate Nicolai—this fact is worth remembering as we go forward.
My guess is Airways and AA are doing their best to limit liability and appear as neutral players while keeping the SLI waters less muddled with the ongoing East & West spy vs spy baloney.
I am truly sorry for the West pilots exposure to the possible incentives motivating APA, USAPA, US Airways and AA. But maybe no one has to lose in a newAA SLI. Maybe the arbitrators will get it right this time and everyone will be royally upset! Either way we should pray to God that there is a merger and a SLI no matter what the outcome!!!
This merger will set the stage for $350k top of scale wide-body captain positions in a decade and narrow-body salaries will appreciate proportionally. This merger stands to change airline dynamics in a way that will break the hold that airline management has in pattern bargaining.
The benefits of this merger would far outweigh the monies thrown away in legal fees by the East and West.
Don't keep ****ing into the wind for the sake of your pride!
Lovingly your devils advocate,
FBW
Ps. Why can't we be friends?!
The MOU gives us a chance to throw out BOTH failed sides and try something new.
I personally think that the advantages of the merger will help solve things, no matter what happens in the SLI.
I can be friends with(just about)anyone!
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