Search

Notices

AOL update

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-19-2013, 06:48 PM
  #1341  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Wiskey Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
Default

Originally Posted by R57 relay
And then you cut off the conversation. You can't make this stuff up folks.
Not in and concerted effort to hide anything but rather to post the meat of the conversation. The really good stuff came at the end of the transcripts here read this then go look it up for yourself that way you wont feel that I am being dishonest.

MR. SZYMANSKI: Your Honor, I'm not prepared to talk
about it at this point any more than I already have. We've --
we've discussed. We've talked about finding a person. We've
tried to find a person. We don't have it yet. We don't have a
set of --
THE COURT: So you don't --
MR. SZYMANSKI: -- rudimentary set of issues yet.
THE COURT: What you're telling me is is you don't
even know yet whether or not you'll be calling an expert.
MR. SZYMANSKI: That's correct.
THE COURT: Okay. 'Cause you just haven't talked to
somebody to determine what they would say about the process?
MR. SZYMANSKI: I haven't even found somebody who's
willing to meet the time schedule yet, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Harper, you're raising your hand.
MR. HARPER: I am.

THE COURT: You have an answer to my question?
MR. HARPER: No, I don't. I just -- when he started
he says he was thinking about an expert in several areas. He's
only mentioned one. I just don't know if there's another area.
THE COURT: And are there other areas?
MR. SZYMANSKI: There are potentially other areas,
Your Honor. There are areas about people who have expertise
about union collective bargaining negotiations.
THE COURT: About what, now?
MR. SZYMANSKI: Union collective bargaining
negotiations and the --
THE COURT: Give me --
MR. SZYMANSKI: -- functions of unions.
THE COURT: All right. You've been -- you've been
in -- in this area of practice for a long time, so what would
this witness testify to as an expert? What opinion would he --
he or she proffer that would be relevant to the issues before
this Court and also something that required an expert?
MR. SZYMANSKI: Your Honor, the kinds of things that
unions typically take into account in making decisions in the
course of collective bargaining negotiations. The kinds of --
THE COURT: Well, let me --
MR. SZYMANSKI: -- competing --
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Anything else? Any
other? You said a number of different potential experts.

MR. SZYMANSKI: Those are the two -- those are the two
main areas, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Without unequivocally
presaging a ruling, I can tell you based upon your proffer I
wouldn't allow those experts to testify to what you have
proffered, so that may save you some time.
Under the rules, under Rule 702, the expertise of the
individual has to be something that would be helpful to the
Court where expertise is required. It sounds to me like more
than anything else, that's the type of thing that I would be
interested in hearing from you in opening statement or closing
argument, and perhaps there would be witnesses that would
testify to what really happened at the time that is related to
the proffer that you have given to me as to what these people
would say. So that should save you some time.
Now, I'm going to take this matter under advisement
and I will save you time, meaning that I will give you a
decision as soon as possible, which should be within 24 hours,
as to whether or not we're going to go forward; whether or not
I'm going to dismiss the case without prejudice; whether or not
I'm going to stay the matter.
All right. Mr. Harper?
MR. HARPER: Would you mind, Your Honor, if I could
make one response to a point that he made?
THE COURT: As long as it's --

MR. HARPER: It would be very --
THE COURT: -- very short.
MR. HARPER: -- very, very brief.
THE COURT: If you're going to repeat something that
I've already said --
MR. HARPER: Very, very brief.
He's having difficulty preparing his defense. Judge,
the issue is: What was the legitimate union purpose for doing
what they did? They know it, they have to articulate it, and I
have to beat it back.
He has no defense. He should be up there first
explaining to you what the legitimate union purpose was as a
plaintiff, and I should be trying to beat it back.
He's not preparing a defense. He has to prepare his
story.
THE COURT: Thank you. We are adjourned.
(Proceedings concluded at 3:15 p.m
Wiskey Driver is offline  
Old 08-19-2013, 08:51 PM
  #1342  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Saabs's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,448
Default

Someone forgot to post WD at AWA I wonder who they were pre merger now!
Saabs is offline  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:06 PM
  #1343  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Wiskey Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
Default

Originally Posted by Saabs
Someone forgot to post WD at AWA I wonder who they were pre merger now!
Damn sure did didnt I?

WD at AWA
Wiskey Driver is offline  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:19 PM
  #1344  
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Default Silver spanks usapa again

She even used the word "frivolous" in characterizing usapa's motion against class cert.

1. The west pilot's are GRANTED class certification.

2. The west pilot's motion to quash both of usapa's subpoena's is GRANTED. (ALL of usapa's deposition's of the plaintiff's are thrown out).

3. Usapa's motion to reconsider is DENIED.

4. The company's motion to intervene is GRANTED.

From the order:
Plaintiffs have moved to certify a class, US Airways Inc. has moved to intervene, third-party Leonidas LLC has moved to quash two subpoenas, and the US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”) has moved for reconsideration of the Court’s refusal to dismiss this case. As set forth below, a class will be certified, intervention will be allowed, the subpoenas will be quashed, and the request for reconsideration will be denied.
I. Class Certification
This is the third time a number of West Pilots have been involved in litigation with their current union, USAPA. In the two previous litigations, the court certified a class comprised of approximately 1,600 West Pilots. This time around, a motion to certify the class was filed very early. (Doc. 11). The Court deferred briefing on that motion until some preliminary issues were resolved. (Doc. 43). After resolving those issues, the Court set a briefing schedule on the class certification issue. (Doc. 122). In doing so, the Court observed that USAPA had opposed class certification in the previous case using very weak arguments. Thus, the Court instructed USAPA that if it planned on opposing certification
2 in this case, it should present “substantially better arguments” than what it presented in the
3 past. Unfortunately, USAPA did not listen.
4 In opposing the class certification motion, USAPA’s only meaningful argument
5 involves the vote approving the Memorandum of Understanding (“MOU”). According to
6 USAPA, the MOU was approved by 97.69% of the West Pilots and that approval rate means
7 certification would be inappropriate. In other words, “[t]he fact that 1,017 West Pilots voted
8 to approve the MOU raises the question of whether any of those 1,017 have a dispute with
9 USAPA regarding the Nicolau Award.” (Doc. 135 at 10). This argument cannot be taken
10 seriously.

11 During the vote on the MOU, USAPA repeatedly assured all its members that the vote
12 would have no bearing on adoption of the Nicolau Award. In USAPA’s own words, “no East
13 pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement
14 the Nicolau Award, and no West pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the
15 MOU will implement the Nicolau Award.” (Doc. 136). In light of this and similar
16 statements during the ratification vote, USAPA’s current position that the vote was a clear
17 statement by the majority of the West Pilots that they are no longer interested in pursuing the
18 Nicolau Award
is very close to frivolous.
19 Having disposed of USAPA’s only argument opposing certification, it is obvious that
20 certification is appropriate. The four requirements of Rule 23(a) are met. First, the proposed
21 class satisfies the numerosity requirement because it consists of approximately 1,600 West
22 Pilots. Second, the commonality requirement is met because this litigation will “generate
23 common answers” to classwide issues. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes, 131 S. Ct. 2541,
24 2551 (quoting Nagareda, Class Certification in the Age of Aggregate Proof, 84 N.Y.U. L.
25 Rev. 97, 132 (2009)). In particular, this litigation will decide whether USAPA acted
26 appropriately with respect to all West Pilots. Third, the typicality requirement is met because
27 the claims of the representative parties are identical to the claims of the proposed class. See
28 Hanlon v. Chyrsler Corp., 150 F.3d 1011, 1020 (9th Cir. 1998). And fourth, the adequacy requirement is met because the representative parties will fairly and adequately protect the
2 interests of the class.
3 Having satisfied the four requirements of Rule 23(a), certification requires the West
4 Pilots also satisfy one of the requirements of 23(b). In this case, certification is appropriate
5 under Rule 23(b)(1)(A) because “prosecuting separate actions by or against individual class
6 members would create a risk of . . . inconsistent or varying adjudications with respect to
7 individual class members that would establish incompatible standards of conduct for the
8 party opposing the class.” That is, USAPA is obligated to act consistently regarding all of
9 its union members. Imposing a single course of conduct on USAPA will prevent inconsistent
10 treatment of West Pilots. Therefore, the Court will certify a class defined as “All pilots who
11 are on the America West seniority list currently incorporated into the West Pilot’s collective
12 bargaining agreement.”
13 The proposed class counsel has substantial experience regarding the precise issues
14 presented in this case and were successful in the prior jury trial. USAPA offered no plausible
15 basis for the Court to reject the proposed class counsel and there is none. The Court will
16 appoint Marty Harper, Andrew S. Jacob, and Jennifer Axel as class counsel.
17 Finally, notice is not required when a class is certified under Rule 23(b)(1). Fed. R.
18 Civ. P. 23(c)(2). Given the circumstances of this case, notice is neither needed nor
19 appropriate.

requirement is met because the representative parties will fairly and adequately protect the
2 interests of the class.
3 Having satisfied the four requirements of Rule 23(a), certification requires the West
4 Pilots also satisfy one of the requirements of 23(b). In this case, certification is appropriate
5 under Rule 23(b)(1)(A) because “prosecuting separate actions by or against individual class
6 members would create a risk of . . . inconsistent or varying adjudications with respect to
7 individual class members that would establish incompatible standards of conduct for the
8 party opposing the class.” That is, USAPA is obligated to act consistently regarding all of
9 its union members. Imposing a single course of conduct on USAPA will prevent inconsistent
10 treatment of West Pilots. Therefore, the Court will certify a class defined as “All pilots who
11 are on the America West seniority list currently incorporated into the West Pilot’s collective
12 bargaining agreement.”
13 The proposed class counsel has substantial experience regarding the precise issues
14 presented in this case and were successful in the prior jury trial. USAPA offered no plausible
15 basis for the Court to reject the proposed class counsel and there is none. The Court will
16 appoint Marty Harper, Andrew S. Jacob, and Jennifer Axel as class counsel.
17 Finally, notice is not required when a class is certified under Rule 23(b)(1). Fed. R.
18 Civ. P. 23(c)(2). Given the circumstances of this case, notice is neither needed nor
19 appropriate. considerations” and the “liberal policy in favor of intervention.” Id. (quotations omitted).
2 US Airways satisfies all four requirements.
3 First, US Airways has a “significant protectable interest” in the timely resolution of
4 the seniority dispute. Second, the failure to resolve the seniority dispute in a timely manner
5 may “impair or impede” US Airways’ interest by frustrating the expected realization of “the
6 operational and financial benefits from the combined pilot workforce.” (Doc. 128 at 5).
7 Third, US Airways’ requested intervention is timely because it moved to intervene while this
8 case was in its infancy. And finally, US Airways’ interest is different from the interests of
9 the West Pilots and USAPA in that US Airways takes no position on the underlying merits
10 but is only interested in ensuring “a prompt adjudication of the merits.” (Doc. 128 at 8). US
11 Airways will be allowed to intervene.

III. Motions to Quash
13 Third-party Leonidas has moved to quash two subpoenas issued by USAPA. Despite
14 filing lengthy oppositions to those motions, USAPA has not been able to establish the
15 relevance of the information sought by either subpoena. Both subpoenas will be quashed.
16 IV. Motion for Reconsideration
17 USAPA has moved for reconsideration of the Court’s order refusing to dismiss this
18 case for lack of jurisdiction. This case, like the previous disputes involving these parties,
19 presents very difficult issues regarding standing and ripeness. The Court’s ruling on the
20 motion to dismiss was based on the facts available at that time. While those facts have
21 changed, the Court is not convinced that the changes require dismissal. Therefore, the
22 motion for reconsideration will be denied.
23 Accordingly,
24 IT IS ORDERED the Motion to Certify Class (Doc. 11) is GRANTED.
25 IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Intervene (Doc. 128) and Motions to
26 Expedite (Doc. 129, 188) are GRANTED. US Airways shall file its intervention pleading
27 within five days of this Order.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions to Quash (Doc. 149, 178) are GRANTED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Reconsideration (Doc. 183) is DENIED.
DATED this 18th day of September, 2013.
Any questions on who the scumbags are here?

Last edited by cactiboss; 09-18-2013 at 03:32 PM.
cactiboss is offline  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:55 PM
  #1345  
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Default

I took the liberty to cut out and emphasize a portion of the ruling for my buddy r57:

11 During the vote on the MOU, USAPA repeatedly assured all its members that the vote
12 would have no bearing on adoption of the Nicolau Award. In USAPA’s own words, “no East
13 pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement
14 the Nicolau Award, and no West pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the
15 MOU will implement the Nicolau Award.” (Doc. 136). In light of this and similar
16 statements during the ratification vote, USAPA’s current position that the vote was a clear
17 statement by the majority of the West Pilots that they are no longer interested in pursuing the
18 Nicolau Award is very close to frivolous.
So r57, it appears that your contention that the MOU abandons the Nicolau is, how did the Judge put it..... Ah yes, "close to frivolous".
cactiboss is offline  
Old 09-18-2013, 09:24 PM
  #1346  
Flies With The Hat On
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Default

Originally Posted by cactiboss
She even used the word "frivolous" in characterizing usapa's motion against class cert.

1. The west pilot's are GRANTED class certification.

2. The west pilot's motion to quash both of usapa's subpoena's is GRANTED. (ALL of usapa's deposition's of the plaintiff's are thrown out).

3. Usapa's motion to reconsider is DENIED.

4. The company's motion to intervene is GRANTED.

From the order:
Any questions on who the scumbags are here?
I don't believe a ruling is always a reflection of who is or is not a scumbag, but this definitely seems a setback for USAPA.
flybywire44 is offline  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:25 PM
  #1347  
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Default

Originally Posted by flybywire44
I don't believe a ruling is always a reflection of who is or is not a scumbag, but this definitely seems a setback for USAPA.
Well their actions have been scum baggy from day one nd continue in court.
cactiboss is offline  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:55 AM
  #1348  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SilverandSore's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: CA
Posts: 483
Default

What's next then? Does class status put the west at the table representing themselves should the merger finally happen? Or USAPA appeals and we wait another year for the next tidbit of news?
SilverandSore is offline  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:47 AM
  #1349  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: AB 320 Captain
Posts: 355
Default

Mid Atlantic pilots are requesting class status also. Maybe TWA and Empire group can also get a seat?
CaptainBigWood is offline  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:05 AM
  #1350  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
Default

So when the west manages to shut down USAPA, what will the union be for US Airways pilots?
lolwut is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gettinbumped
United
0
12-11-2012 11:29 AM
cactiboss
American
29
05-16-2012 06:24 PM
LifeNtheFstLne
United
51
11-16-2010 11:47 AM
HSLD
Hiring News
2
11-14-2006 04:32 PM
HSLD
Hiring News
1
02-08-2006 10:37 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices