AOL update
06-04-2013, 02:27 PM
#1191
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Who knows? But Parker will throw any and all of us under the bus if needed. I guess the question is: Who has more power?
06-04-2013, 04:14 PM
#1192
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Here's what I found:
"A question is fit for decision when it can be decided
without considering "contingent future events that may or
may not occur as anticipated, or indeed may not occur at all.""
Our merger is not certain. Our 2000 merger with UA took a year or more to die. Most of us think it will close, but many thought the UA/US was a "done deal."
"Indeed, the Supreme Court case that clarified that the DFR
was applicable during contract negotiations articulated its
holding in terms that imply a claim can be brought only after
negotiations are complete and a "final product" has been
reached."
Our "final product" is a SLI. We have no idea that will be as we agreed in the MOU to stay on our present seniority listS, and go into the MB process.
Again, she may certainly say it's ripe. Everybody wants it to be except USAPA and they may want it to be, but just feel that it would be irresponsible to not argue the point.
"A question is fit for decision when it can be decided
without considering "contingent future events that may or
may not occur as anticipated, or indeed may not occur at all.""
Our merger is not certain. Our 2000 merger with UA took a year or more to die. Most of us think it will close, but many thought the UA/US was a "done deal."
"Indeed, the Supreme Court case that clarified that the DFR
was applicable during contract negotiations articulated its
holding in terms that imply a claim can be brought only after
negotiations are complete and a "final product" has been
reached."
Our "final product" is a SLI. We have no idea that will be as we agreed in the MOU to stay on our present seniority listS, and go into the MB process.
Again, she may certainly say it's ripe. Everybody wants it to be except USAPA and they may want it to be, but just feel that it would be irresponsible to not argue the point.
06-04-2013, 06:51 PM
#1193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
The difference here is that this is a "declaratory" suit and the findings only apply if the merger is consumated (por). As far as for the 9ths ruling, it no longer applies because their requirement for company/usapa negotiations can never happen. Do we have a jcba? Everybody that signed on to the mou says yes except for usapa.
06-05-2013, 07:38 AM
#1194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Yes she doesn't "get" how the 9th could have ruled the way they did. The 9th said it wouldn't be ripe until bargaining was complete, the bargaining they refer to is between the company and usapa. So the company/usapa bargaining for seniority is complete making the case ripe ( that was her reasoning).
The 9th of course did not know about USAPA bargaining with APA because at the time the APA was not in the picture.
Negotiations with the APA is indeed one of the contingencies that the 9th foresaw as a distinct possibility that made the final JCBA/SLI a complete unknown. The 9th didn't know what they could not know about the future, and Silver is in the exact same position, unable to know what she cannot know about the future.
06-05-2013, 07:47 AM
#1195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Q - Can East & West pilots bid positions on the other side during the period between the POR & JCBA?
A - No, the Status quo continues.
Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?
A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.
Q - How will the jump seat work?
A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.
Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?
A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.
Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.
A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.
*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.
Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.
A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
A - No, the Status quo continues.
Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?
A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.
Q - How will the jump seat work?
A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.
Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?
A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.
Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.
A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.
*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.
Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.
A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
06-05-2013, 08:52 AM
#1197
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Q - Can East & West pilots bid positions on the other side during the period between the POR & JCBA?
A - No, the Status quo continues.
Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?
A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.
Q - How will the jump seat work?
A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.
Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?
A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.
Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.
A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.
*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.
Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.
A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
A - No, the Status quo continues.
Q - Is there a last leg swap (a commuting pilot can fly your last leg) provision in the APA contract?
A - Not at this time, but something that will be addressed in the JCBA talks.
Q - How will the jump seat work?
A - APA jumpseat is seniority based. We will address our current jumpseat reservation policy in the JCBA process.
Q - Do we have another “bite at the apple” for improvements to the MOU?
A - We’ve been taking bites of the apple since August. Keep in mind this is a four- party agreement negotiated with guidance and input from the UCC. Any changes to the MOU would require approval by all parties prior to the POR. According to our legal counsel and both the APA and USAPA negotiators, there’s a better chance of making changes in the JCBA negotiations when we are working directly with the new management of New American Airlines, as opposed trying to further negotiate the MOU.
Q - In regard to min block hours, some people are worried they're going to cut back on Airbus and bring in 190s.
A - The minimum block hours do not include the 190’s; those block hour protections are for Group 2 and larger aircraft. They could not replace Group 2 aircraft with 190s unless they added Group 3 or 4 aircraft to insure they remained above the minimum block hour floor for Group 2 and higher aircraft. The 190’s are viewed as growth above the min block hours.
*The minimum block hour is for Group 2 and larger, but we are currently operating above that minimum. This protection lasts for 18 months past getting a single operating certificate, OR until there is a JCBA and a joint seniority list in place.
Q - We need some definition of who's going to be on short and who's going to be on long call.
A - We've had preliminary talks and that will continue in the JCBA to come up with the best process possible.
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
06-05-2013, 02:20 PM
#1198
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,502
Troll.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
06-05-2013, 02:31 PM
#1199
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
Troll.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
Are you going to grill AA pilots on their accidents? AWA rode the backs of airlines and passengers that paid for safety advances with their lives.
I thought better of you. I'd expect it of the idiot WD. Pay, contracts and accidents are all different.
I know one of your CPs. We were roommates a long time ago. I'd put him up against anyone, but I'd do the same with my CPs.
Safety has no place in this! That long lasting deicing fluid that you use came on the dead back of one of my wife's best friends.
06-05-2013, 02:43 PM
#1200
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Troll.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Wien Air Alaska Scabs, Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
By the way, which pilot group never had a fatal accident? Which pilot group had the fewest operational errors since the merger? In fact we have never had an accident that resulted in a write off, just a couple of off runway excursions and those were less than brand S has done in one year.
America West pilots came from Wien Air Alaska Scabs, Braniff, Frontier (the original), Eastern, Continental, TWA, American and even a few United guys are still here. Every military branch is represented, corporate and regionals. No attitude, everyone works at flying safe.
We can walk into the Chief pilots office and have a pleasant conversation. They take care of us and deflect most of the BS that flows down from Flight Ops management. Do your managers do that for you? This has been a great place to fly out of. It will change in the next few years and that is a shame because in spite of our mongrel backgrounds we are a very cohesive group. We police our own and we expect everyone to fly to our standards. We take great pride in our safety record. There is little tolerance for a holes, from either seat. They exist, but they are few.
Carl
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