Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

The east feels they can can just toss out the arbitration like it never ever happened and get a do over with APA and that too at the west expense.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

The east careers were all but over until AWA came along now as a result of a failed carrier they want to revive their careers at the expense of the minority.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

One glaring fact remains, and that is not a single airline merger arbitration has ever been overturned or even just set aside.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

There is a very good reason for that too, because the standard set is very high. Now when George gets in to testify about this arbitration that will be the final nail in the coffin. A highly respected and the east will love this part, SENIOR ARBITRATOR will tell how he came to his conclusions.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Oh BTW it really adds to the cause the the DAL NWA SLI was an almost mirror image of his award between us.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Six plus years wasted at our expense while people hired last year sit capt and west first officers with 14yrs are nailed in the right seat. Can you now see the overwhelming sense of east fairness and why we absolutely despise them?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Really? The east side has one year Captains?

Carl

Originally Posted by R57 relay

If you make the claim that they are liars then you should highlight the lies and show your proof.

I just scanned the USAPA filing and I saw some "lawyerisms" and some facts that left out some reasoning, but I missed any outright lies. For example, I wouldn't say that AWA was "about" to file Chp 11, but they were planning for the possibility and Parker said that it most like would have occurred. So me the lies and your proof and if you are correct I will say so and tell USAPA.

I will have to go hunt AOL's and see what they had to say as I got a 404 error message when I tried to open your link.

If I find AOL lies or distortions will you tell AOL? I found a bunch in their brochure series. I also have some web board quotes from Koontz that you may find enlightening if you would like to see them.

Originally Posted by cactiboss

see if this link works:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West...ed%20Facts.pdf

I won't highlight what I know are lies so that my opinion and interpretation doesn't enter into people's opinion, there are so many blatant lies and half truths that anyone with limited knowledge can easily spot them, the west document is 100% accurate and backed by exhibits. You know that Silver already cautioned your attorney about lying right?(after catching him lying to the court) She also cautioned not to play games with the sof's (which usapa just did in an effort to force discovery and bog the case down in minutia).

Originally Posted by R57 relay

I agree about the judge and I will grant you that the odds are against a negotiated SLI, but shouldn't we give it an honest try?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You mean besides the fact that you've said that's impossible?

Carl

Originally Posted by R57 relay

You must have missed my post where I said I found it, read it and agree that it was mostly accurate, as far as it went. It leaves out other facts.

I think if you had a smoking gun you would show it.

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Off the rails you go again.

First off, AWA didn't "come along." US Airways approached Parker. He said our costs were too high for a merger to work. US then patterened our concessions to get in line with your contract.( A friend of mine spent a month in Tempe in 2004 for that very reason. Only because of our ALPA structure, and a lunatic rep did we end up with worse). Bruce Lakefield and the Luth group put together the money package to do the merger and bring US out of Chp 11. AWA didn't have any money to do it either! The money raised for the merger paid off your ATSB loan and prevented an AWA Chp 11.

You succeed with what should have been your main quest with AOL-preventing a DOH merger with US. And I doubt you will see a DOH merger with AA. But that's not good enough. You want the Nic no matter what the cost. That is why I don't support separate representatives for the west in MB. You will torpedo any attempts at an agreed upon SLI so that you can again try to keep the Nic before the arbitration panel. You have visions of Nicolau marching in and having the new panel bow at his feet.

I've told you that I think going into AA negotiations with a DOH or die attitude is wrong. Our C&BLs call for the support of DOH principles so I don't know what the merger committee will do. On those grounds we agree, so if you should get individual representation then I should too.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

This is where you lose me WD. It can't possibly be at one sides' expense since the list was never implemented. You are to this very day operating under your separate seniority lists. Bringing these separate lists to the APA arbitration could not possibly harm you. You cannot make a case for harm. You cannot be harmed by not implementing something that you never had.

Ok here let me help you out then. Pilots FURLOUGHED east pilots that brought zero to this merger OTHER THAN a furlough number are now sitting sitting as captains. There are west pilots that were flying here at the time of this merger that ie they brought a job to the place that are now sitting on the street. West pilots that were captains that got down graded after the fact and west pilots with double digit year seniority that are in the right seat to this day while basically new hires are captains. Must I get any more clear than that??


These kind of statements are helping to lead you to your current confused state. The east pilot's careers were not all but over any more than the rest of us after 9/11. We were all basket cases. All of us. Even America West Airlines. Given how badly you've been hurt by Southwest, it could be argued that yours was the weakest of all the large carriers.

I am not the least bit confused. Carl when I make a statement like "east careers were all but over" I am talking about two very important facts that led to the arbitrators decision. One, the east was furloughed up to 40% of their list 40%! That means unless you had 18 yrs with usair at the time of the merger you were furloughed. Second and equally damaging was that for the last month prior to the merger being closed AMERICA WEST covered the east payroll! This too the arbitrator had access too. Last, AWA had come off its most profitable year in history right before this merger yet the east says we were filing bankruptcy. Well I have searched all the 10q's and the AWA reports support the east's claims. Carl like I told relay, all this was given to the arbitrator prior to a decision and we are where we are today as a result of their dishonest act.

Carl