AOL update
05-30-2013, 05:16 AM
#1041
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
O........K........
Yikes. You think UAL pilots are low life thieves?
I'm former NWA, now DAL.
Carl
05-30-2013, 05:25 AM
#1042
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 596
the Nicolau award was an enormous windfall to west pilots at the expense of east pilots. It is also my opinion that a Date of Hire list is an enormous windfall to east pilots at the expense of west pilots.
If the Nicolau award is NOT a windfall for west pilots, why the huge and expensive legal "army"? Is it because west pilots are utterly devoted to the preservation of the arbitration process? The honor of George Nicolau? Something else? Your opinion that west pilots are fighting this ONLY because it was the result of an agreed upon negotiations process doesn't ring true to me.
The only logical explanation for standing up a legal army of this magnitude is to preserve an enormous legal windfall. Of course, the same exact thing can be said for the legal army built by east pilots to pursue a Date of Hire list. It's disingenuous for east pilots to say anything other than they are simply trying to gain an enormous windfall at the expense of west pilots.
If the Nicolau award is NOT a windfall for west pilots, why the huge and expensive legal "army"? Is it because west pilots are utterly devoted to the preservation of the arbitration process? The honor of George Nicolau? Something else? Your opinion that west pilots are fighting this ONLY because it was the result of an agreed upon negotiations process doesn't ring true to me.
The only logical explanation for standing up a legal army of this magnitude is to preserve an enormous legal windfall. Of course, the same exact thing can be said for the legal army built by east pilots to pursue a Date of Hire list. It's disingenuous for east pilots to say anything other than they are simply trying to gain an enormous windfall at the expense of west pilots.
05-30-2013, 05:25 AM
#1043
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I supported a ratioed list with conditions and restrictions to protect both sides in the NW/Republic acquisition. We got a straight DOH list instead.
Not sure what that has to do with this topic, but that's my record.
Carl
05-30-2013, 05:35 AM
#1044
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
The RLA and the law require that ALPA be exactly what you posted. They are a association. They are not a national union and are not permitted to form such a union. As a result each division or airline is only as good as the membership and who they choose to represent them. ALPA can provide resources and advice. How a individual union uses those assets under the ALPA umbrella is up to them.
For those of you who don't know, sailingfun is a handsomely rewarded forum monitor to defend ALPA national against any negative press. You'll rarely see him chime in on anything unless ALPA is mentioned in any negative way.
Carl
05-30-2013, 05:42 AM
#1046
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
Because you begin with "If the nic award was not such a windfall then why?"
All this that you and the east clan are doing has already been accounted for in the arbitration. The panel had all the information they needed to reach a conclusion and they reached one. Now one side says " we wanted DOH and since we didn't get that we will use our majority status just take that which was not given. We will just start an new union make all the rules and the hell with the other group! If the law and the world really worked that we this would be an awful place to live.
The east feels they can can just toss out the arbitration like it never ever happened and get a do over with APA and that too at the west expense. Their plan is very east to see for anyone really wanting to see the truth, yourself included. The east careers were all but over until AWA came along now as a result of a failed carrier they want to revive their careers at the expense of the minority. DOH places over 90% of the west pilots at the bottom of the list and that of course is not a windfall according to them. That is as they put it 'THE GOLD STANDARD" yet no carrier that has merged of late uses this so called GOLD STANDARD, why?
One glaring fact remains, and that is not a single airline merger arbitration has ever been overturned or even just set aside. There is a very good reason for that too, because the standard set is very high. Now when George gets in to testify about this arbitration that will be the final nail in the coffin. A highly respected and the east will love this part, SENIOR ARBITRATOR will tell how he came to his conclusions. Oh BTW it really adds to the cause the the DAL NWA SLI was an almost mirror image of his award between us.
Six plus years wasted at our expense while people hired last year sit capt and west first officers with 14yrs are nailed in the right seat. Can you now see the overwhelming sense of east fairness and why we absolutely despise them?
WD at AWA
All this that you and the east clan are doing has already been accounted for in the arbitration. The panel had all the information they needed to reach a conclusion and they reached one. Now one side says " we wanted DOH and since we didn't get that we will use our majority status just take that which was not given. We will just start an new union make all the rules and the hell with the other group! If the law and the world really worked that we this would be an awful place to live.
The east feels they can can just toss out the arbitration like it never ever happened and get a do over with APA and that too at the west expense. Their plan is very east to see for anyone really wanting to see the truth, yourself included. The east careers were all but over until AWA came along now as a result of a failed carrier they want to revive their careers at the expense of the minority. DOH places over 90% of the west pilots at the bottom of the list and that of course is not a windfall according to them. That is as they put it 'THE GOLD STANDARD" yet no carrier that has merged of late uses this so called GOLD STANDARD, why?
One glaring fact remains, and that is not a single airline merger arbitration has ever been overturned or even just set aside. There is a very good reason for that too, because the standard set is very high. Now when George gets in to testify about this arbitration that will be the final nail in the coffin. A highly respected and the east will love this part, SENIOR ARBITRATOR will tell how he came to his conclusions. Oh BTW it really adds to the cause the the DAL NWA SLI was an almost mirror image of his award between us.
Six plus years wasted at our expense while people hired last year sit capt and west first officers with 14yrs are nailed in the right seat. Can you now see the overwhelming sense of east fairness and why we absolutely despise them?
WD at AWA
05-30-2013, 06:11 AM
#1047
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
05-30-2013, 07:03 AM
#1048
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
. The east careers were all but over until AWA came along now as a result of a failed carrier they want to revive their careers at the expense of the minority. DOH places over 90% of the west pilots at the bottom of the list and that of course is not a windfall according to them. That is as they put it 'THE GOLD STANDARD" yet no carrier that has merged of late uses this so called GOLD STANDARD, why?
First off, AWA didn't "come along." US Airways approached Parker. He said our costs were too high for a merger to work. US then patterened our concessions to get in line with your contract.( A friend of mine spent a month in Tempe in 2004 for that very reason. Only because of our ALPA structure, and a lunatic rep did we end up with worse). Bruce Lakefield and the Luth group put together the money package to do the merger and bring US out of Chp 11. AWA didn't have any money to do it either! The money raised for the merger paid off your ATSB loan and prevented an AWA Chp 11.
You succeed with what should have been your main quest with AOL-preventing a DOH merger with US. And I doubt you will see a DOH merger with AA. But that's not good enough. You want the Nic no matter what the cost. That is why I don't support separate representatives for the west in MB. You will torpedo any attempts at an agreed upon SLI so that you can again try to keep the Nic before the arbitration panel. You have visions of Nicolau marching in and having the new panel bow at his feet.
I've told you that I think going into AA negotiations with a DOH or die attitude is wrong. Our C&BLs call for the support of DOH principles so I don't know what the merger committee will do. On those grounds we agree, so if you should get individual representation then I should too.
05-30-2013, 08:16 AM
#1049
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
I think you guys need to get used to the fact a judge will make a ruling on your squabble (whatever it may be) and then arbitration will result in 18 months or so on the last and final SLI among the current participants. Since the two opposing sides will NEVER agree to virtually ANYTHING, I see little point now in the endless bickering.
05-30-2013, 08:23 AM
#1050
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,299
I think you guys need to get used to the fact a judge will make a ruling on your squabble (whatever it may be) and then arbitration will result in 18 months or so on the last and final SLI among the current participants. Since the two opposing sides will NEVER agree to virtually ANYTHING, I see little point now in the endless bickering.
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