Originally Posted by flybywire44

8 of the pilots in this photo look like they're wearing their hats for the first time.

Originally Posted by aa73

Wow, where do I start.

While I am no fan on how APA was started, I need to correct a couple of things you wrote:

B scales: Everyone loves to blame APA on starting B scales. Well guess what. A little history will reveal that UAL pilots under the poisoned leadership of one John Ferg - best buddies with Dick Ferris, UAL CEO - signed THE MOST CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT in history back in '81 or '82 known as "Blue Skies." This contract was deemed so concessionary and damaging to the profession that Bob Crandall, sensing an opening, expanded on that and one year later pushed B-Scales onto the AA pilots, enticing them with the world's largest aircraft order. The AA pilots, knowing that UAL pilots had signed Blue Skies a year earlier and were watching UAL start to kick tail, relented and signed. APA was simply guilty of piggybacking off the UAL pilots in the downward spiral.

You wrote, "Over and over again APA has helped management diminish the career expectations of the American Airline pilots and in many instances leading the rest of the profession down the drain. "

Wow, that's a strongly worded sentiment. A question: Where does ALPA fit in to this statement? Because last I checked, ALPA has had a long history of one blow to major airline pilots after another, while at the same time representing countless regional airline pilot groups that have exploded at the expense of major airline pilot furloughs. What has ALPA done to stop that? How can you blame APA, representing ONE pilot group, for "leading the rest of the profession down the drain" when ALPA has done exactly that while representing HOW MANY major airline pilot groups???

Secondly, APA was THE ONLY major airline pilot group who stood up to management's outrageous and hideous attempt in absolutely DECIMATING our careers in Ch 11 BK, spit in their faces, and in the meantime engineered a merger IN BK while kicking current management to the curb. WHO HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO PULL THAT OFF?? Granted, we had previous Ch 11 cases to study and learn for, but I don't think it would be a stretch to **THANK** the APA for setting the standard for all future airline BKs and the raping associated with that.

APA had a clear cut strategy from the beginning of the Ch 11 filing and it worked. We now have better management and the start of a new beginning while we were able to preserve much of our old contract AND get increased pay rates out of it.

I'd say APA RAISED the bar for the profession this time around.

Originally Posted by aa73

Wow, where do I start.

While I am no fan on how APA was started, I need to correct a couple of things you wrote:

B scales: Everyone loves to blame APA on starting B scales. Well guess what. A little history will reveal that UAL pilots under the poisoned leadership of one John Ferg - best buddies with Dick Ferris, UAL CEO - signed THE MOST CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT in history back in '81 or '82 known as "Blue Skies." This contract was deemed so concessionary and damaging to the profession that Bob Crandall, sensing an opening, expanded on that and one year later pushed B-Scales onto the AA pilots, enticing them with the world's largest aircraft order. The AA pilots, knowing that UAL pilots had signed Blue Skies a year earlier and were watching UAL start to kick tail, relented and signed. APA was simply guilty of piggybacking off the UAL pilots in the downward spiral.

You wrote, "Over and over again APA has helped management diminish the career expectations of the American Airline pilots and in many instances leading the rest of the profession down the drain. "

Wow, that's a strongly worded sentiment. A question: Where does ALPA fit in to this statement? Because last I checked, ALPA has had a long history of one blow to major airline pilots after another, while at the same time representing countless regional airline pilot groups that have exploded at the expense of major airline pilot furloughs. What has ALPA done to stop that? How can you blame APA, representing ONE pilot group, for "leading the rest of the profession down the drain" when ALPA has done exactly that while representing HOW MANY major airline pilot groups???

Secondly, APA was THE ONLY major airline pilot group who stood up to management's outrageous and hideous attempt in absolutely DECIMATING our careers in Ch 11 BK, spit in their faces, and in the meantime engineered a merger IN BK while kicking current management to the curb. WHO HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO PULL THAT OFF?? Granted, we had previous Ch 11 cases to study and learn for, but I don't think it would be a stretch to **THANK** the APA for setting the standard for all future airline BKs and the raping associated with that.

APA had a clear cut strategy from the beginning of the Ch 11 filing and it worked. We now have better management and the start of a new beginning while we were able to preserve much of our old contract AND get increased pay rates out of it.

I'd say APA RAISED the bar for the profession this time around.

Originally Posted by Bad-Andy

First thing I noticed was 8 out of 8 of these guys sure look old. Some good attrition coming (on both sides of the fence)...

Originally Posted by LittleBoyBlew

...And what did ALPA do?

Originally Posted by LittleBoyBlew

...And what did ALPA do?

Originally Posted by iama570

I am a LUAL pilot of 28 years and I wish you all good luck during your merger process. It is going to be interesting to watch, but truly I hope it works well for all of you. Good luck!

Originally Posted by AxialFlow

...convinced pilots to take massive concessions so they could live to "fight" another day