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Old 10-01-2012, 04:03 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by block30
The piloting world is not some safe island where everything is great and secure!
Right. I get that. But clearly the pilot at least has to physically BE IN THE COUNTRY to perform the job. In my line of work people can do the job from anywhere.

As I said. Self-destruction of the airline while thinking that 'some other management team is better' is a delusional approach. But that's seems to be where the AA pilots are taking things now. And then to be 2nd class citizens at THAT airline (US Air), an airline which some customers (myself included) clearly despise, seems like a really bad approach.

Good luck everyone. Now I am REALLY signing off for today...
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:07 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by AA3mFreqFl
Welcome to America year 2012. Ever since 2001 that seems to be true. Just keep in mind that the rest of us have also had a ****ty time out here in the real world. I would expect that as your profession gets 'commoditized' your real earnings drop. As it has for the rest of us. At least your job (the pilot) cannot be outsourced to India. You should be greatful.

And yes, some creeps in management will in fact make out like bandits. They always will. But to think that would NOT happen with different management? That's what's delusional in this action.

Clearly AA management has failed to build any team spirit. But this action probably just simply ensures the whole airline goes down in flames. If so - good job pilots. Now you are going to make me fly US Air instead... Gosh darn it!
No, the hope is that you fly AA........just a better AA that has at least a chance of being a good AA. If AA and U merge, it will still be AA, just the idea is to actually get some competent leadership that the employees could actually follow and respect. As it stands now, that will NEVER happen. I'm afraid too much damage has been done for too long. This patient has stage IV cancer and there is only one cure.

You needn't really worry too much. If nothing changes at the top, then when AA is fragmented, your FF miles should probably be transferable to another network. You should do o.k.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:09 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by AA3mFreqFl
Sure - people at AA this past decade truly succeeded in creating a useful and strong FF program, making customers like me pick AA over all other options. Not sure who I should thank for that (Crandall maybe?), but it clearly does work. Whereas other programs do not work nearly as well. The nicest feature is clearly the Exec Plat direct phone number to call centers in the US. Once of the nice features NO LONGER at airlines like United (nothing against India, but even for big FF flyers, the United India team runs everything at UA).

Also everyone else (United etc.) had the benefit of bankruptcy to wash their assets through. I am stunned

Finally, yes, I get the anger at management. But to think that OTHER management teams would be any different, now THAT is the delusional part on the AA pilots' side.

Again, good luck to all. I just hope I continue having a decent airline choice with a good FF program. That's all.

This was a fun debate and all... now I gotta get back from my break and do some work in the non-airline industry again

Cheers,
I know you think I was making a snide remark earlier, but again; I believe this is the basis of your position on this entire issue. You must understand, AA pilots have a bit more important issues, to them, going on right now then to worry about your FF program. These guys just lost their pensions and took HUGE paycuts and work rule concessions. Now here you are with "I don't wanna fly US Air so you guys better knock it off". Get real.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:10 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by AA3mFreqFl
Sure - people at AA this past decade truly succeeded in creating a useful and strong FF program, making customers like me pick AA over all other options. Not sure who I should thank for that (Crandall maybe?), but it clearly does work. Whereas other programs do not work nearly as well. The nicest feature is clearly the Exec Plat direct phone number to call centers in the US. Once of the nice features NO LONGER at airlines like United (nothing against India, but even for big FF flyers, the United India team runs everything at UA).

Also everyone else (United etc.) had the benefit of bankruptcy to wash their assets through. I am stunned

Finally, yes, I get the anger at management. But to think that OTHER management teams would be any different, now THAT is the delusional part on the AA pilots' side.

Again, good luck to all. I just hope I continue having a decent airline choice with a good FF program. That's all.

This was a fun debate and all... now I gotta get back from my break and do some work in the non-airline industry again

Cheers,
Well, at least with another management team that is "just as bad", it won't have all the baggage currently being lugged around by the employees. A fresh start so to speak.........

Thanks for the visit.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:11 PM
  #25  
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My perpective as a Airline Pilot AND a Full Fare Frequent Flier.

In the past twelve months I have flown 40,000 miles on US Airways and 30,000 miles on American. As I am in this industry, I had preconceived notions about US Airways. I am constantly reforming those beliefs everytime I fly on US Airways. I think US Airways suffers a perception problem created before Doug Parker and his team stepped in. The company used to be the worst in the business, but if you fly on them these days, they perform vey well. I have never misconnected on them, never had them lose my bag, and come to think of it, I cannot remember the last time they were even late.

By no means do I fly enough in a given year to earn Executive Platinum status like the other poster, but I can say that for the lower-end frequent fliers like myself, I prefer US Airways program for various reasons.

American's program still charges me for bags and lets me choose middle seats in the back of the airplane and lets me board the airplane accordingly. US Airways has not charged me for bags this year, gives me exit row, any window or aisle in coach, or a first class seat if they are available. Furthermore, the difference in my mileage on each airine is simply because US Airways makes it much easier to accrue bonus mileage.

As far as hubs go, I see the other poster's point. American has the best hubs in the industry. With that said, when I am traveling up and down the east coast, I would rather connect through Charlote than fly North to New York and then back South to my destination. Or fly South to Miami and then fly back North to my destination.

So, I feel that US Airways manages better and American (overall) has the best hub system and the simple benefits of being a larger carrier that serves more of my international destinations. Therefore, I think a merger with US Airways management in control of American Airlines while using the American Airlines name would be a extremely strong company.

Good luck to the AA pilots. I think you guys are doing something really extrodinary.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by fullflank
I know you think I was making a snide remark earlier, but again; I believe this is the basis of your position on this entire issue. You must understand, AA pilots have a bit more important issues, to them, going on right now then to worry about your FF program. These guys just lost their pensions and took HUGE paycuts and work rule concessions. Now here you are with "I don't wanna fly US Air so you guys better knock it off". Get real.
LOL. I think YOU misunderstand. If I don't think your airline (presuming you work for AA that is) provides good service for frequent fliers then YOU (or AA employees) will be laid off in the future, because you LOSE revenues.

So it's not about MY (personal) FF program status. It's about AA's ability to attract valuable customers. And REALLY valuable ones at that. If you are a pilot, and you DON'T care about your FF customers, THEN you are delusional, and are missing the whole point of how to run an airline.

I am at the end of my FF days (hopefully) - BUT - future customers may not be as loyal to AA if after a merger with US Air they abandon the new combined airline, just as we ran away from US Air the second we had a better option (AA).

So my original take stands. You the pilot must care about your customer. Who gives a 'sxxx' about management. It will always be there. But what truly matters is what your customers decide to do.

Or put a different way, you can negotiate the best benefits on the planet. And if you customers run away, then you will have 10 pilots enjoying those benefits.

Truly trying to leave now...
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:21 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
My perpective as a Airline Pilot AND a Full Fare Frequent Flier. In the past twelve months I have flown 40,000 miles on US Airways and 30,000 miles on American.
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
American's program still charges me for bags and lets me choose middle seats in the back of the airplane and lets me board the airplane accordingly.
If that's the case, then you are GOLD on AA (25,000+ miles). And would never be charged for bags, and get to pick a preferred seat online. Again, this is actually WHY FF travelers (at 25k+ a year) like my own wife LIKES AA. So I presume you must have flown less than 25k miles...

Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
Good luck to the AA pilots. I think you guys are doing something really extrodinary.
Indeed - I fully agree with you. Let's just hope management and pilots get their sxxx together and don't torch it all.!
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:27 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by AA3mFreqFl
LOL. I think YOU misunderstand. If I don't think your airline (presuming you work for AA that is) provides good service for frequent fliers then YOU (or AA employees) will be laid off in the future, because you LOSE revenues.

So it's not about MY (personal) FF program status. It's about AA's ability to attract valuable customers. And REALLY valuable ones at that. If you are a pilot, and you DON'T care about your FF customers, THEN you are delusional, and are missing the whole point of how to run an airline.

I am at the end of my FF days (hopefully) - BUT - future customers may not be as loyal to AA if after a merger with US Air they abandon the new combined airline, just as we ran away from US Air the second we had a better option (AA).

So my original take stands. You the pilot must care about your customer. Who gives a 'sxxx' about management. It will always be there. But what truly matters is what your customers decide to do.

Or put a different way, you can negotiate the best benefits on the planet. And if you customers run away, then you will have 10 pilots enjoying those benefits.

Truly trying to leave now...
I don't work for AA. I'll add that pilots do in fact care a great deal about their passengers. So much in fact that they would never risk your safety by operating a non-airworthy aircraft with you, the precious cargo, onboard.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #29  
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Default Views on the pilot slowdown from FF customer

AA3mFreqFl, AA pilots deserve a lot more respect then you are giving them. As an employee of any company, union or not, you have the prerogative to be honest with your bosses if they are abusing their authority. That's precisely what AMR management is doing with respect to all its employees; AA pilots simply have the courage to state it as it really is.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:21 PM
  #30  
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I liked this poster. Bravo!
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