AA pilot contract now officially ABROGATED
09-18-2012, 08:47 AM
#31
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Calling for work action could be illegal and cost the union millions. It got several pilots at other airlines into big trouble.
When I returned to United after my first furlough Glenn Tilton said if you don't like it quit. But has was laughing, because he knew he would win as no one would.
He was absolutely right. You may not be allowed to get others to call in sick, and you may not be allowed to strike. But there is nothing to stop pilots en-mass in quitting. Yes it would take enormous courage, and a leap of faith.
But if a significant number did at AMR or many other airlines. The government would stand up and take notice. Only then will they start to address the real problems. They cannot simply find that number of pilots to replace you all in a year.
20,000+ quitting on the same day would be awesome. I know it will never happen.
When I returned to United after my first furlough Glenn Tilton said if you don't like it quit. But has was laughing, because he knew he would win as no one would.
He was absolutely right. You may not be allowed to get others to call in sick, and you may not be allowed to strike. But there is nothing to stop pilots en-mass in quitting. Yes it would take enormous courage, and a leap of faith.
But if a significant number did at AMR or many other airlines. The government would stand up and take notice. Only then will they start to address the real problems. They cannot simply find that number of pilots to replace you all in a year.
20,000+ quitting on the same day would be awesome. I know it will never happen.
American pilots, our profesion is behind you.
09-18-2012, 09:43 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 131
Well said! We (major airline pilots) are in this together and all of our managements are taking note of Hortons actions, refining their plan to use against us. The arrogance Horton displayed going into this fight with the APA is telling and now I understand it more. We all have to support the APA
09-18-2012, 10:21 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
I'm sure there was a day when managements would back down from pilot demands and threats. As far as I can tell, that day hasn't been around for at least 20 years.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
09-18-2012, 11:30 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
Bluto: Hey! What's all this laying around stuff? Why are you all still laying around here for?
Stork: What the hell are we supposed to do, ya moron? We're all expelled. There's nothing to fight for anymore.
D-Day: [to Bluto] Let it go. War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: [to Boon] Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard of something to say]
Bluto: The tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[Bluto runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the **** happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: [stands up] Yeah, I agree. Let's go get 'em.
Boon: Let's do it.
Bluto: [shouting] "Let's do it"!
Stork: What the hell are we supposed to do, ya moron? We're all expelled. There's nothing to fight for anymore.
D-Day: [to Bluto] Let it go. War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: [to Boon] Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard of something to say]
Bluto: The tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[Bluto runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the **** happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: [stands up] Yeah, I agree. Let's go get 'em.
Boon: Let's do it.
Bluto: [shouting] "Let's do it"!
I'm sure there was a day when managements would back down from pilot demands and threats. As far as I can tell, that day hasn't been around for at least 20 years.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
09-18-2012, 12:46 PM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
I'm sure there was a day when managements would back down from pilot demands and threats. As far as I can tell, that day hasn't been around for at least 20 years.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
Collectively, we've lost scope, retirements, work rules, career progression, Captains Authority, privacy rights, the list goes on, and we've done NOTHING to stop it. When the chips were down, when we should have called a national SOS--we capitulated. Doesn't matter anymore why.
Regardless, nobody is going to do a damn thing to stop the ever downward spiral of this profession. I almost have to laugh when I use that word now. Profession. It's really not anymore. It's more of a vocation. The days of pilots holding political and operational power are long gone. That is the reality, and as the UAL guy basically said, if you don't like it, then quit. I know that I wouldn't even consider mentoring young people into this profession anymore. My advice to them is to get into a line of work where they can make enough money to buy their own plane, and enjoy their passion.
I wish the AA pilots well. I think a lot of them have had it and don't really care what happens. I know a bunch of USAir guys and they have the same viewpoint. Most of them have either quit, or depend on another source of income, flying is their second job. As we lose power and frankly, hope for recovery of this career, we'll be more and more willing to sign away what jobs are left to scope, and eventually cabotage. Foreign ownership of airline rules will go by the wayside eventually, and there will be few if any U.S. based airline pilots who are also American citizens. Why? Because nobody cares any more. Not enough to actually do anything about what's happening.
If successful here, then DAL and UAL will have to somehow compete with AA future slave labor. If they can't get it in pay/benefits, they'll eventually just outsource more. Arsenic or strychnine, take your choice.
09-18-2012, 04:57 PM
#36
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Yet, still they aren't satisfied and want more. In fact, Lorenzo's old lawyer as well as his previous spokesman are on board and assisting in the tightening of the screws this time. This is really a desire to bust the unions once and for all at AA by rendering them moot forever.
If successful here, then DAL and UAL will have to somehow compete with AA future slave labor. If they can't get it in pay/benefits, they'll eventually just outsource more. Arsenic or strychnine, take your choice.
If successful here, then DAL and UAL will have to somehow compete with AA future slave labor. If they can't get it in pay/benefits, they'll eventually just outsource more. Arsenic or strychnine, take your choice.
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