What now?
08-22-2012, 11:49 AM
#91
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 52
That just happened a couple of days ago. Management said we will not be meeting again, so our board just voted 16-0 for a strike ballot.
Already going on. Don't be surprised to see the UCC step in and facilitate.........something.
I understand where you are coming from with the really scary stuff, but you have to realize that we are now in uncharted territory. Nobody else has gone through a contractual abrogation. Every other airline has settled by willingly signing on the dotted line. What you are doing is speculating and making assumptions. Could all of this really nasty stuff happen and we are screwed? Yes. Could we come out with a better deal? Yes.
It's the answer to the second question that you seem to have a hard tome coming to grips with. Neither you and I know where this will lead. Our group is very unified right now. We have now moved past the point of no return. With that being said, we are past the fear stage and moving quickly into the nothing-to-lose stage. Management has started to make big time threats, and all it is doing is ****ing people off. There is nobody howling for mercy and begging for a do-over.
I also categorically reject your steadfast denial that management needs a contract. There have been numerous indications to our pilot group that this is in fact the case - not only from the company but also from the UCC. I highly doubt that the UCC wants to see their investments put in any jeopardy by some sort of meltdown at AA. I would also like to see how AA will be able to file any sort of accurate POR without knowing what pilot costs will be a few months past the end of BK.
Regardless of management's rejection Monday to immediately return to the bargaining table, many other things they have either publicly said or emailed have indicated as such. If I had to wager, I would guess that they will try to get our union to accept the LBFO with a couple of minor changes. This new offer may pass the APA BOD, but I think they would have an angry riot on their hands.
Already going on. Don't be surprised to see the UCC step in and facilitate.........something.
It's the answer to the second question that you seem to have a hard tome coming to grips with. Neither you and I know where this will lead. Our group is very unified right now. We have now moved past the point of no return. With that being said, we are past the fear stage and moving quickly into the nothing-to-lose stage. Management has started to make big time threats, and all it is doing is ****ing people off. There is nobody howling for mercy and begging for a do-over.
I also categorically reject your steadfast denial that management needs a contract. There have been numerous indications to our pilot group that this is in fact the case - not only from the company but also from the UCC. I highly doubt that the UCC wants to see their investments put in any jeopardy by some sort of meltdown at AA. I would also like to see how AA will be able to file any sort of accurate POR without knowing what pilot costs will be a few months past the end of BK.
Regardless of management's rejection Monday to immediately return to the bargaining table, many other things they have either publicly said or emailed have indicated as such. If I had to wager, I would guess that they will try to get our union to accept the LBFO with a couple of minor changes. This new offer may pass the APA BOD, but I think they would have an angry riot on their hands.
08-22-2012, 11:55 AM
#92
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Yes it is true that you don't know what the claim will be. I heard the same arguments when we negotiated our claim in bankruptcy. It could be worth zero it could be worth more than the Delta pilots got. Certainly if you let your contract get rejected, it will be zero, you can bank on that.
I have been deeply involved in several contract negotiations, I read both term sheets multiple times so I know what you were facing. I believe I referred to it as a "crappy contract" and a worse one. You can stop the bleating over how bad it is. My pension was terminated, we took a 14% pay cut, and more in bankruptcy. Your offer was not out of the range of any other bankruptcy deal. At Delta, we are now on our second post bankruptcy contract and we exited bankruptcy in April 2007.
If the APA is smart they will be talking to management and the UCC. Given the judges comments, there is very little incentive for either of those parties to change the economics of the deal to any extent. You can rearrange the deck chairs but the total nut will probably not change.
The term sheet written as-is leaves little for most AA pilots to work with and the "economics" are suspect at best and undependable overreaching fantasies at worst. I don't see this or any future BOD making the same mistake twice and passing a new turd dog with mustard added to the ketchup.
I note you take deep offense to my opinions and call it arrogance to offer advice, but say nothing when a Compass RJ driver does the same thing. I at least have over 20 years in the industry and have extensive negotiating experience along with being centrally involved in our own bankruptcy. But I am sure that the 25 year old RJ driver has much more experience to offer. Maybe you only take offense when someone disagrees with you.
Did you throw a lot of food as an infant ?
My point is this. Your airline will not be the same 18 months from now as it is now. During these big changes, you want to have a contract, you want to have merger protections, you want to have fragmentation protections. Look around at previous airlines and see what is possible in bankruptcy. If you get caught in some major transaction with no contractual protections you will look back on those A-319 rates and wish you had signed up for those. Having been through bankruptcy I understand your anger and frustration. In my opinion, you will only magnify the pain if you allow your contract to be rejected. Your lawyers, your officers, your negotiators, your BOD all recognized that fact when they approved this TA, as stinky as it was. It is too late to yell "Halt" after the steam roller has run over you. So if it is arrogance to try to warn your fellow pilots not to shoot themselves in the foot, head, heart, and groin then I plead arrogance.
Yes, the pillar of accuracy, neutrality and reason you are (not). Get over yourself alfa. Again, be proud you've done your bit, but at this point well simply have to see what plays out. That TA is done and anything similar has zero chance of success, so onward the process goes and where it goes no one knows.
08-22-2012, 12:07 PM
#93
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Jeez, followiing alfa's own advice, I suppose we should listen to our BOD, reps and advisors then. Well,.........unless they too disagree with him and then I suppose we should just forget them and christen alfa's hood ornament our new emblem.
Let's all bow to the sport's car now.
08-22-2012, 12:34 PM
#94
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
In addition to the landslide strike-vote authorization by APA should AMR impose their 1113, it's being reported that Parker and Kirby are in DFW to sign an MOU with APA for a $10K signing bonus to fluff the sheets of any honeymoon going forward. Looks to me like Parker is positioning himself to be the only ambulance in sight after the train wreck. I wonder if the creditors can see this crazy train may be about to fly off the rails ?
08-22-2012, 09:55 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 114
08-23-2012, 12:18 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
Wow... I leave for a few days, and come back to more management sock puppets and "me... Me... ME..." senior pilots desperate for us to kneel before our Centreport masters and beg forgiveness. For whatever reason that might be, I can't fathom. But it must have something to do with that ME mentality.
What happened to the days when we supported each other in labor actions and negotiations? What the hell happened?
What happened to the days when we supported each other in labor actions and negotiations? What the hell happened?
08-24-2012, 12:46 PM
#97
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
From what I read the judge said:
The judge's ruling has basically shattered all of the forum ideas about how the APA would prevail.
So you have two options:
- American went bankrupt because their network was too small and they did not have enough feed. This has caused a serious revenue problem as the high value customers are abandoning them. Part of the reorganization will be to increase code sharing and RJ flying to fix that (did you read that Mesabah? Your crew room lawyering is once again shown to be wrong)
... and ... - He does not care if the APA thinks that merging with US Airways is the best course of action, no merger has been agreed to
- The company's witnesses were more credible than the APA's
- Under Chapter 11, necessary changes do not mean the minimum to survive, it means enough changes to create a successful company
The judge's ruling has basically shattered all of the forum ideas about how the APA would prevail.
So you have two options:
- Agree to a crappy contract that contains a substantial claim in the reorganized American. Just to reiterate, the 13% claim that the Delta pilots got from their bankruptcy netted out to $1,300,000,000. That's a lot of zeroes there.
- Accept and even worse contract rejection and get no claim
I would very much like to have heard the arguments which helped form the Judge's opinion. ALPA, who is advising the APA, has been "monetizing" scope for over a decade now. If the APA has been negotiating job protection provisions with "credits" then they bear responsibility for having established their scope as an instrument of trade. In other words, ALPA and perhaps the APA, have created a marketplace which negated the sacrosanct nature of job protection provisions. Do you agree? Or, is it your position job protection has always been just about the money?
Your opinion is interesting. You see (conservative / effective / tight - pick the adjective) scope as constraining feed. I ask, why couldn't American perform their feed themselves? Isn't that management's decision? TWA had Delta's latest and greatest feed tool; the 717.
... taking it further, with this ruling, what purpose do unions serve pilots? Has union representation become near as can matters similar to the representation provided by a real estate agent, ... selling the family farm for a 2% commission? This near ruling may have been mostly crafted to scare the pilots into meaningful concessions, however, it is "new law" on some of the scope issues that we've been wrestling with.
I'd sure like to read your detailed opinion on the small jet scope side of this deal.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 08-24-2012 at 12:58 PM.
08-27-2012, 06:59 AM
#98
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Unfortunately for labor, your conclusions sure appear correct. While it is not surprising a Judge thinks management knows more about running their Company than pilots, it is stunning (at least to me) the way he went through Section 1; opining that only the no furlough clause and international code share were job protection provisions. The rest, it appears, he perceives as purely economic.
I would very much like to have heard the arguments which helped form the Judge's opinion. ALPA, who is advising the APA, has been "monetizing" scope for over a decade now. If the APA has been negotiating job protection provisions with "credits" then they bear responsibility for having established their scope as an instrument of trade. In other words, ALPA and perhaps the APA, have created a marketplace which negated the sacrosanct nature of job protection provisions. Do you agree? Or, is it your position job protection has always been just about the money?
Your opinion is interesting. You see (conservative / effective / tight - pick the adjective) scope as constraining feed. I ask, why couldn't American perform their feed themselves? Isn't that management's decision? TWA had Delta's latest and greatest feed tool; the 717.
... taking it further, with this ruling, what purpose do unions serve pilots? Has union representation become near as can matters similar to the representation provided by a real estate agent, ... selling the family farm for a 2% commission? This near ruling may have been mostly crafted to scare the pilots into meaningful concessions, however, it is "new law" on some of the scope issues that we've been wrestling with.
I'd sure like to read your detailed opinion on the small jet scope side of this deal.
I would very much like to have heard the arguments which helped form the Judge's opinion. ALPA, who is advising the APA, has been "monetizing" scope for over a decade now. If the APA has been negotiating job protection provisions with "credits" then they bear responsibility for having established their scope as an instrument of trade. In other words, ALPA and perhaps the APA, have created a marketplace which negated the sacrosanct nature of job protection provisions. Do you agree? Or, is it your position job protection has always been just about the money?
Your opinion is interesting. You see (conservative / effective / tight - pick the adjective) scope as constraining feed. I ask, why couldn't American perform their feed themselves? Isn't that management's decision? TWA had Delta's latest and greatest feed tool; the 717.
... taking it further, with this ruling, what purpose do unions serve pilots? Has union representation become near as can matters similar to the representation provided by a real estate agent, ... selling the family farm for a 2% commission? This near ruling may have been mostly crafted to scare the pilots into meaningful concessions, however, it is "new law" on some of the scope issues that we've been wrestling with.
I'd sure like to read your detailed opinion on the small jet scope side of this deal.
Now apparently the claim is that NO PENSION AT ALL is apparently required, but we all know that is simply arm-twisting.........but that's what this has become, i.e., not about what is "needed", but what can be "taken". The chapter 11 process even as lopsided against labor as it is, is NOT supposed to be used that way, but arguably, this BK has become an open refrigerator for the debtor, or so they believe and it seems that apparently this management is claiming it can't compete unless it has virtually regional airline economics from its pilots. That brings us to the absurd conclusions of a judge highlighted by alfa and a system that is DESIGNED to come to just such conclusions for the benefit of the only entities that matter in a broken system, the debtor, creditors and investors, only now it seems this judge has relinquished his gavel to the debtor to use as a club. As far as AA pilots are concerned, this has gone way too far. AMR could have improved its network at any time during the last decade but CHOSE not to.........well, actually they did by acquiring several carriers, but in virtually every case, melted that network and the assets they brought within 18 months to a puddle. The "feed" issue (which we all know most of which really isn't feed) COULD have been solved at any time during the last decade if they CHOSE to by negotiating a fair and competitive contract allowing that instead of deliberatly dragging their feet and stalling out another broken process designed to favor people with this business philosophy.
It seems Lane apparently believes that poor little ole' AMR was hamstrung by outside sources, especially unreasonable pilots, yet the testimony was litterted with claims by THEIR witnesses of primary business strategies that including "kicking the can" and "limping along". The bottom line is the only thing the judges ruling shattered was any belief in the capability of this judge to make a rational evaluation of the situation or the hope that a broken and biased system might, under the most eggregious circumstances, not turn a blind eye toward the ridiculous. Therefore, it matters little what this judge believes as apparently, as it stands now anyway, this process won't be providing a fair and balanced resolution if left up to only the debtor and the pilots. Thus, the only way forward in the eyes of the pilots anyway, is to either let AMR attempt to band-aid their POR as the best WITHOUT a pilots CBA and hope they get the backing and approval to exit stand alone which has MAJOR risks for creditors and investors going forward, IMO most of which will be AFTER exit from chapter 11 when excessive, inopportune and uncontrolled attrition may cripple the operation before it can start a recovery (high resignations/retirements) or exhausting exclusivity prior to that and letting whatever sharks are out their circling into the pool for a taste. As to the former, should that occur, the debtor wont be a debtor anymore, just a freshly reorganized company with a MAJOR problem right out of the gate. Then judge Lane is truly irrelevent as his jurisdiction vaporizes.
Alfa is completely in error regarding the existance of the claim going forward as yes, it still does exist. To what degree is an unanswered question. He assumes that the "process" has stopped now for AA pilots and that is also in error. His conclusion that the "only way to go" based on his errors and assumptions of his multiple posts has lead him to the worst conclusion for AA pilots possible, one devoid of any options, hope or abilities for perhaps a decade and all for 30 pieces of silver (more likely 30 pieces of paper stock), so any thoughts on small jets from him, I expect to be more crapola as well.
Claiming his opinion is correct and seeking more of it is like commending the paper boy's smarts for delivering a paper that has the latest stock market increase and asking his advise on future investing because of it.
What now ?
Well, from what I've heard, the parties will be meeting with judge Lane prior to the 1PM Sept. 4 hearing at his request (perhaps that very morning). WHAT he is going to say to all the parties is not yet known, but it's my understanding that many want a concensual agreement and don't want this apple cart to be tipped over (you rarely get all your apples back when that happens). AMR has refiled their 1113 with "corrections" and is requesting the judge to re-rule on the motion. However, it's my understanding (but I could be wrong) that once an 1113 is denied (regardless of the reasoning), that the 1113 "process" must restart as opposed to being "continued", that being a new 14-21 day expedited process. An expedited process would allow the reintroduction of any new information to compare against the competition to ensure what is demanded is necessary and doesn't produce an unfair competitive advantage and in fact, the APA sent AMR a letter requesting just such information of their latest assessment of all the recent developments both within AMR and their plan, what's occuring at the competition relating to pilot compensation and financial evaluations of their demands in order to ensure what is being demanded is in fact, necessary for successful reorganization and all parties are being treated fairly and equitably.
AMR has requested the court to dismiss any such re-starting of the process and wants an immeadiate ruling using all past testimony and evidence as it being already argued and ruled upon. Desireable, yes, but from what I understand, that is not what the process provides for once an 1113 is rejected. To me, that would seem to imply the debtor is now re-writing bankruptcy law to their advantage. At any rate, I'd expect little likelyhood of any bombshells until Sept. 4, any meetings, the hearing and what judge Lane does.
08-27-2012, 03:14 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 440
I'm surprised you'd be interested to hear his opinion on the small jet scope side of the deal considering the post you reference (along with many of his others) is filled with error, assumption and thus bad and most likely biased conclusions. AMR wasn't really "bankrupt" when it filed for reorganization under chapter 11. It had 5 billion in cash and had 12-18 months before they were financially at that crossroad (debt/asset and operating finances) according to virtually every analyst. A MAJOR reason AMR filed early was to stop the increasing exodus of pilots who saw that after a decade of a failed or non-existant business plan, AA was indeed headed that way and wanted their lump sum retirements before the thump. AMR wanted to protect its holiday schedule, so filed many months early. The aircraft orders and other actions in the 6 months prior to filing all indicated AMR was indeed planning an imminent chapter 11 filing and surprised everyone with the early move, with the exception of an increasing number of pilots with an accurate case of the hebe-jeebies. The primary point of this BK was simply to slash labor costs, especially pensions. Clearly, as time goes on they've decided to go after every penny possible as initially with the proposal of November 2011 made just before the filing, that was what was claimed necessary for reorganization. Then after filing several term sheets and an LBFO that ratchet everything downward in an ever changing demand of what is "needed", they reclaim the new and deeper cuts are necessary. It's all baloney.
Now apparently the claim is that NO PENSION AT ALL is apparently required, but we all know that is simply arm-twisting.........but that's what this has become, i.e., not about what is "needed", but what can be "taken". The chapter 11 process even as lopsided against labor as it is, is NOT supposed to be used that way, but arguably, this BK has become an open refrigerator for the debtor, or so they believe and it seems that apparently this management is claiming it can't compete unless it has virtually regional airline economics from its pilots. That brings us to the absurd conclusions of a judge highlighted by alfa and a system that is DESIGNED to come to just such conclusions for the benefit of the only entities that matter in a broken system, the debtor, creditors and investors, only now it seems this judge has relinquished his gavel to the debtor to use as a club. As far as AA pilots are concerned, this has gone way too far. AMR could have improved its network at any time during the last decade but CHOSE not to.........well, actually they did by acquiring several carriers, but in virtually every case, melted that network and the assets they brought within 18 months to a puddle. The "feed" issue (which we all know most of which really isn't feed) COULD have been solved at any time during the last decade if they CHOSE to by negotiating a fair and competitive contract allowing that instead of deliberatly dragging their feet and stalling out another broken process designed to favor people with this business philosophy.
It seems Lane apparently believes that poor little ole' AMR was hamstrung by outside sources, especially unreasonable pilots, yet the testimony was litterted with claims by THEIR witnesses of primary business strategies that including "kicking the can" and "limping along". The bottom line is the only thing the judges ruling shattered was any belief in the capability of this judge to make a rational evaluation of the situation or the hope that a broken and biased system might, under the most eggregious circumstances, not turn a blind eye toward the ridiculous. Therefore, it matters little what this judge believes as apparently, as it stands now anyway, this process won't be providing a fair and balanced resolution if left up to only the debtor and the pilots. Thus, the only way forward in the eyes of the pilots anyway, is to either let AMR attempt to band-aid their POR as the best WITHOUT a pilots CBA and hope they get the backing and approval to exit stand alone which has MAJOR risks for creditors and investors going forward, IMO most of which will be AFTER exit from chapter 11 when excessive, inopportune and uncontrolled attrition may cripple the operation before it can start a recovery (high resignations/retirements) or exhausting exclusivity prior to that and letting whatever sharks are out their circling into the pool for a taste. As to the former, should that occur, the debtor wont be a debtor anymore, just a freshly reorganized company with a MAJOR problem right out of the gate. Then judge Lane is truly irrelevent as his jurisdiction vaporizes.
Alfa is completely in error regarding the existance of the claim going forward as yes, it still does exist. To what degree is an unanswered question. He assumes that the "process" has stopped now for AA pilots and that is also in error. His conclusion that the "only way to go" based on his errors and assumptions of his multiple posts has lead him to the worst conclusion for AA pilots possible, one devoid of any options, hope or abilities for perhaps a decade and all for 30 pieces of silver (more likely 30 pieces of paper stock), so any thoughts on small jets from him, I expect to be more crapola as well.
Claiming his opinion is correct and seeking more of it is like commending the paper boy's smarts for delivering a paper that has the latest stock market increase and asking his advise on future investing because of it.
What now ?
Well, from what I've heard, the parties will be meeting with judge Lane prior to the 1PM Sept. 4 hearing at his request (perhaps that very morning). WHAT he is going to say to all the parties is not yet known, but it's my understanding that many want a concensual agreement and don't want this apple cart to be tipped over (you rarely get all your apples back when that happens). AMR has refiled their 1113 with "corrections" and is requesting the judge to re-rule on the motion. However, it's my understanding (but I could be wrong) that once an 1113 is denied (regardless of the reasoning), that the 1113 "process" must restart as opposed to being "continued", that being a new 14-21 day expedited process. An expedited process would allow the reintroduction of any new information to compare against the competition to ensure what is demanded is necessary and doesn't produce an unfair competitive advantage and in fact, the APA sent AMR a letter requesting just such information of their latest assessment of all the recent developments both within AMR and their plan, what's occuring at the competition relating to pilot compensation and financial evaluations of their demands in order to ensure what is being demanded is in fact, necessary for successful reorganization and all parties are being treated fairly and equitably.
AMR has requested the court to dismiss any such re-starting of the process and wants an immeadiate ruling using all past testimony and evidence as it being already argued and ruled upon. Desireable, yes, but from what I understand, that is not what the process provides for once an 1113 is rejected. To me, that would seem to imply the debtor is now re-writing bankruptcy law to their advantage. At any rate, I'd expect little likelyhood of any bombshells until Sept. 4, any meetings, the hearing and what judge Lane does.
Now apparently the claim is that NO PENSION AT ALL is apparently required, but we all know that is simply arm-twisting.........but that's what this has become, i.e., not about what is "needed", but what can be "taken". The chapter 11 process even as lopsided against labor as it is, is NOT supposed to be used that way, but arguably, this BK has become an open refrigerator for the debtor, or so they believe and it seems that apparently this management is claiming it can't compete unless it has virtually regional airline economics from its pilots. That brings us to the absurd conclusions of a judge highlighted by alfa and a system that is DESIGNED to come to just such conclusions for the benefit of the only entities that matter in a broken system, the debtor, creditors and investors, only now it seems this judge has relinquished his gavel to the debtor to use as a club. As far as AA pilots are concerned, this has gone way too far. AMR could have improved its network at any time during the last decade but CHOSE not to.........well, actually they did by acquiring several carriers, but in virtually every case, melted that network and the assets they brought within 18 months to a puddle. The "feed" issue (which we all know most of which really isn't feed) COULD have been solved at any time during the last decade if they CHOSE to by negotiating a fair and competitive contract allowing that instead of deliberatly dragging their feet and stalling out another broken process designed to favor people with this business philosophy.
It seems Lane apparently believes that poor little ole' AMR was hamstrung by outside sources, especially unreasonable pilots, yet the testimony was litterted with claims by THEIR witnesses of primary business strategies that including "kicking the can" and "limping along". The bottom line is the only thing the judges ruling shattered was any belief in the capability of this judge to make a rational evaluation of the situation or the hope that a broken and biased system might, under the most eggregious circumstances, not turn a blind eye toward the ridiculous. Therefore, it matters little what this judge believes as apparently, as it stands now anyway, this process won't be providing a fair and balanced resolution if left up to only the debtor and the pilots. Thus, the only way forward in the eyes of the pilots anyway, is to either let AMR attempt to band-aid their POR as the best WITHOUT a pilots CBA and hope they get the backing and approval to exit stand alone which has MAJOR risks for creditors and investors going forward, IMO most of which will be AFTER exit from chapter 11 when excessive, inopportune and uncontrolled attrition may cripple the operation before it can start a recovery (high resignations/retirements) or exhausting exclusivity prior to that and letting whatever sharks are out their circling into the pool for a taste. As to the former, should that occur, the debtor wont be a debtor anymore, just a freshly reorganized company with a MAJOR problem right out of the gate. Then judge Lane is truly irrelevent as his jurisdiction vaporizes.
Alfa is completely in error regarding the existance of the claim going forward as yes, it still does exist. To what degree is an unanswered question. He assumes that the "process" has stopped now for AA pilots and that is also in error. His conclusion that the "only way to go" based on his errors and assumptions of his multiple posts has lead him to the worst conclusion for AA pilots possible, one devoid of any options, hope or abilities for perhaps a decade and all for 30 pieces of silver (more likely 30 pieces of paper stock), so any thoughts on small jets from him, I expect to be more crapola as well.
Claiming his opinion is correct and seeking more of it is like commending the paper boy's smarts for delivering a paper that has the latest stock market increase and asking his advise on future investing because of it.
What now ?
Well, from what I've heard, the parties will be meeting with judge Lane prior to the 1PM Sept. 4 hearing at his request (perhaps that very morning). WHAT he is going to say to all the parties is not yet known, but it's my understanding that many want a concensual agreement and don't want this apple cart to be tipped over (you rarely get all your apples back when that happens). AMR has refiled their 1113 with "corrections" and is requesting the judge to re-rule on the motion. However, it's my understanding (but I could be wrong) that once an 1113 is denied (regardless of the reasoning), that the 1113 "process" must restart as opposed to being "continued", that being a new 14-21 day expedited process. An expedited process would allow the reintroduction of any new information to compare against the competition to ensure what is demanded is necessary and doesn't produce an unfair competitive advantage and in fact, the APA sent AMR a letter requesting just such information of their latest assessment of all the recent developments both within AMR and their plan, what's occuring at the competition relating to pilot compensation and financial evaluations of their demands in order to ensure what is being demanded is in fact, necessary for successful reorganization and all parties are being treated fairly and equitably.
AMR has requested the court to dismiss any such re-starting of the process and wants an immeadiate ruling using all past testimony and evidence as it being already argued and ruled upon. Desireable, yes, but from what I understand, that is not what the process provides for once an 1113 is rejected. To me, that would seem to imply the debtor is now re-writing bankruptcy law to their advantage. At any rate, I'd expect little likelyhood of any bombshells until Sept. 4, any meetings, the hearing and what judge Lane does.
08-27-2012, 03:43 PM
#100
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
For some reason you seem to be offended by Alpha's (among others) analysis...I think in the end however he will be proven to be quite accurate, unfortunately. I hope I am incorrect and you prevail in improving your standing in the court...and not mired in the LCC quagmire.
I'm all ears.
......and could you include what your status is, i.e. are you an airline pilot and for what carrier.
