eaglefly

I'll also comment on this statment at a later time.

Provided that plan actually does remove the competitor.

AA wont liquidate if DAL and U merge. I'll stand by that. For AA to liquidate, it would also mean the collapse of One World. One question to add is would a DAL/U merge add enough value for the cost (especially if it didn't achieve its competitive objective) ?

AMR took this road with TWA and look how that turned out. I'll not comment on certain things now, as sometimes situations and actions aren't what they seem. Try not to look at this from where certain people want you to look. Pilots have a tendancy to do that.

eaglefly

If the AA merger flounders then, I guess it will turn out even better or U pilots, wouldn't it ? DAL flies in and takes U off the table, then it would seem U pilots compensation troubles are over. They'd all be encompassed in the Delta CBA. As the acquiree from DAL though, poor Doug would be shown the door and that's not his dream.

Sounds like a plan. However, Delta then has an even bigger network with at least 7 clustered hubs east of the Mississippi alone, all flown by the most expensive legacy pilots among the big 3 and all on max. longevity scale. If AA buys Jet Blue and ramps up an internal expansion with pilots not only at cheaper scale, but significantly less longevity, AA could be around awhile.As the deleveries ramp up, AA may only get strongers their labor costs continue to decrease. Labor costs (especially pilos) are the second highest drag behind fuel for airlines, aren't they ?

If DAL/U finds itself in a AA/TWA position in a few years, what then ?

cactiboss

Where did I say amr liquidates? I said bk2 is a possibility , and dal would have the premier network in the world. My point is not to knock amr, my point was that usair will merge in the near future with someone.

Capt Hindsight

This is so obvious to the rest of us, but you two can't even see it.

Cactiboss and Eaglefly need to get a room.

How's that for an AMR/U merger?



Capt H

eaglefly

What you said was, "a DAL merger would effectively marginalize AMR and WHEN BK comes knocking, well you know...".

You imply an AMR BK is a certainty if DAL acquires U by using the term "when" and not "if". Of course, I disagree a DAL/U marriage results in an AA BK. I used the "liquidation" term as, let's face it, IF AA were to go into its second BK, they'd be where TWA was and a fragmentation (AKA liquidation) would be the likely outcome, so I was simply following your inference of finality and its logical path of conclusion.

R57 relay

Cacti said that USAPA was PERMANENTLY parked by the NMB and would NEVER get a contract. I posted the update where they were talking with the NMB and discussing the issues.

I don't believe cacti has ever had an original thought in his life. He is a guy that lets his anger run his life and he runs around parroting others thoughts without taking the time to read and think about what is available.

We don't have a joint contract because Parker has taken advantage of the pilot seniority fight to save money. I understand why you guys want a merger vs AA's standalone plane, but you need to remember his history and you should have US pilots in on the negotiations, particularly west pilots(just not ones like cacti) that know PBS and know Parker better than the rest of us.

R57 relay

Pay attention. You said PERMANENTLY parked and would NEVER get a contract. I showed you an update where they are talking to the NMB and the company.

Is your permanently and never like "USAPA will never get the cards", "Doug will take care of us" or "Judge Silver will end this by April"?

eaglefly

I still don't think USAPA is "discussing the issues" (that being the APA/U CLA), just present in the hope of being allowed to discuss the issues.

I've yet to hear of any airline CEO who willingly hands over more money to his pilots unless he has to, so Parker is no different then anyone else in that. Additionally, USAPA has selected the strategy of intransegence and you expect a reward from Parker for that, for preventing him from merging his 2 airlines ?

Well............if you say so.

While I understand the frustration with having another union negotiate your future by default, I think formally letting USAPA into the mix with their track record would have tanked the deal.........which of course, is what USAPA/East would prefer, because...........well, let's face it, they are all about tanking deals less they get virtually all of their demands. From my understanding, half the U pilots (the west) don't even consider USAPA their union anyway and so don't seem so bristled at the thought of APA moving the ball there forward. Perhaps not as forward as desired, but considering the situation at U, better then USAPA tyranny in perpituity.

Don't worry, if USAPA isn't allowed to alter the AA/U equation, I'd expect a lawsuit to be filed against the APA, Parker and perhaps even baby huey.

cactiboss

You are the one that needs to pay attention. Is usapa parked per the nmb as of today? yes or no? The NMB is getting an update on what is going on, they are not involved in usapa/lcc talks. This is far from usapa negotiating a contract under the auspices of the NMB.

cactiboss

You are correct on the west sentiments, usapa is our enemy and does not have any of our interests. Usapa would not be able to deliver anything close to the term sheet. West pilot's know we are going to take it in the shorts either way, we would rather take the option that destroys usapa and keeps the east pilots from ever being able to harm us again.