cactiboss

They haven't . Typical easthole, can't tell the difference between being played and being a player.

eaglefly

I get your point; The "industry" (Delta) will fly in and scoop up U, if Horton is "successful" in not merging with U. The disconnect for me is the assumption this will force AA back into BK and/or lead to its demise. Another disconnect is timing;

Does Delta do this if AMR appears able to exit BK stand alone or do they wait a predetermined period of time after exit, whereby Delta's convinced AMR will not merge AA and U ?

Delta says, "OMG, AA's going it alone, let's get to Phoenix...........QUICK !!!".

Many who believe in the likelyhood of an AA/U merger agree it could happen before or after BK, so when does Delta determine it has to act ? I can't think of a bigger move or strategic risk for DAL then what you're claiming. At any rate, so Delta decides at some point it must act in this fashion and agree to menage-a-trois with Parker and USAPA (and despite others disagreement, I say, regulators will force some NYC divestiture). That's going to take years weighing down DAL. Meanwhile, I say this won't collapse AA and thus seems pointless unless it hammers AA quick and fast. You say this is fact, because the "industry" demands this and Parker has admitted it, but I haven't heard the "industry" demand this (certainly no rumblings or threats from DAL) and Parker is supposedly a liar known for manipulating labor. I'd think DAL execs would facilitate pushing AA and U together, by making veiled statements through press sources indicating they'd crush AA by merging with U themselves unless AA does it.

Again, even if it did happen, I can't see it having the desired effect and in fact, it would push AA into a perhaps better move, that being a merger with Jet Blue and intensifying its relationship with Alaska. If anything is "destabilizing", it would seem AA expanding internally adding large numbers of new junior low-scale newhires to operate its aircraft via internal expansion, instead of relying more on merging with another carrier whose employees across the board are mostly topped out on the seniority pay scales ould do it. Now, THAT would be destabilizing. Thus, I see the concept of pushing AA and U together in an effort to WEAKEN the competition or at least ensure their labor is on an even playing field. Stand alone, by the end of the decade when combining labor contracts that (unfortunately) are toward the bottom end with a significant percentage at 1-5 year pay scales via internal expansion vs. most topped out at 12 years via a merger with a senior labored carrier, that's a big advantage. DAL bringing in U (and losing some of the best NYC ops) with the cost associated with mergers, a disasterously divided pilot group and maximum pay scales doesn't seem to be the answer for competitive leverage, if you ask me.

Like I said, I read your point, just disagree on its merits.

cactusmike

I am not anti merger at all. I think LCC and AA would make a stronger carrier than LCC on its own or AA on its own. No pilot really wants a merger but it is not about us, it is about the whole company and the money people. They want to see the best option for the airline going forward.

I would rather take some short term pain now than die a long, lingering death. With the consolidation of this industry I would rather be with a strong airline than a weak one. At AWA we had our niche. We were taken out of that spot by Parker and now we are just along for the ride.

R57 relay

You are missing the point.

R57 relay

Would you just ****? Another AF/O.

eaglefly

Well, that's where we are for now. IF Parker's POR wins prior to BK exit (provided he gets to submit one), it would seem the APA/U CLA would rule. If AMR exits stand alone, that agreement is void and then AMR controls a merge with U (provided that's the plan then) and then I'd expect some closer hybrid between whatever CBA is in place here, what is in place at U east/west and perhaps what's competitive elsewhere at DAL and UAL.

The highest probability for a merge seems to be one that Parker controls and that means prior to BK exit. Unfortunately, that's the worst deal for all pilots concerned. If AMR exits in control, there are no creditors to bow to and Parker is hat-in-hand and AMR calls the shots. Seems a merger then would be better contract-wise for all pilots concerned. If a TA is reached and ratified, it will strengthen AMR's chances of exiting BK in control with the winning POR. If it isn't, I think Parker will eventually get the upper hand.

eaglefly

I'm apparently always missing the point when it comes to U guys.

Perhaps, you too can clue me in ?

satpak77

Geez, there are so many points getting missed here that I can't keep up with what point is what.

I however feel the merger with LCC and AMR is almost a sure thing, and don't see LCC merging with anyone else.

cactiboss

According to your union experts (amr's) that is exactly what will happen under Horton's plans, talk to them if you don't agree.
It's not about Phoenix, it's about rationalizing the market place, removing a competitor. Again, look at it this way, where does AMR stand if DAL/U merge? and will a DAL/U merge add value to DAL?

cactiboss

Well I'm not the one that takes a USAPA communication about talking to the company and equating it with usapa getting a contract, am I ? And no, usapa will never negotiate a contract on this property.