eaglefly

I'm sorry you feel bad, Andy. I understand that many of the raging USAPAholics on the East side aren't happy with this situation and would prefer to work in perpituity under a CBA that in many ways is worse then the one I left at Eagle. I also understand this situation may neuter the current USAPA strategy of periodically blowing your toes off one at a time to prove to the world how strong and determined you are to force your seniority integration desires with the West. In fact, it seems many of you want to take that further and now expect DOH in any AA merger as evidenced by the DOH lists fluttering around your cockpits.

At any rate, I have read the U conditional agreement and agree it isn't desirable.......far from it. Sadly, it is still FAR better then the term sheet demands here, including slightly higher pay provisions, a no furlough clause and better scope and code-sharing provisions, just name a few. Unfortunatly for you, we were not in this to negotiate a better contract for USAPA, but then again I can see your anger at us for not doing so considering your inability or unwillingness to do that for yourselves. We are simply doing whatever is necessary to best preserve our careers and a drowning man will grasp whatever rope handed to him, no matter how slippery it is. With the term sheet provisions, AA pilots careers are basically over, so we have nowhere to go but up. The leaky and wobbly U boat is the only boat to climb into right now and until a better boat shows up, that's the way it is.

R57 relay

Maybe instead of just throwing terms like that around you should take the time to really understand what is happening. The most vocal complaints over this are from the WEST. The are the ones that will be taking the hits as there is little in the east contract that is better than the term sheet. They have many better provisions that it looks like will just be thrown out the window while Parker is saying things like the SLI will be a three way.

I know you are looking out for yourself and I get that. But stop and consider how you would feel if your CEO had spent the last few years taking advantage of your seniority fight and then let another union negotiate your future, with a 6 years contract?

lolwut

What are the details of scope in the US-APA termsheet?

cactiboss

That's true the west is taking it in the shorts, but it would be even worse under a usapa negotiated contract.

cactiboss

Usapa is permanently parked by the NMB, they will never negotiate a contract even if the merger doesn't happen.

FlySlow

The New APA CBA leaves it up to Parker et Co., to do what they want. Almost no restrictions!

BTW, why does the PDF document from APA have a "CONFIDENTIAL" across every page?

Shouldn't we want every APA and USAPA pilot to read this piece of $hit?

I can answer the above question I posed: Because the agreement is total garbage!

PS Several pilots I've talked to, USAPA and APA, have no clue what this agreement contains. The USAPA pilots (At least the East) are only thinking $$$...i.e. the $172.hour. Boy, will these pilots be surprised if this merger happens and this agreement stands!

FlySlow

I agree, this APA agreement is really sticking to the West. I'm still hoping that we can change some of the language in this agreement.

I'd rather take around 150-160/hour, but make that a floor, 35 days of vacation (easily split into 5x7 days), 5:15/daily etc. etc.

We shall see...

cactiboss

Yup, the reserve is crap too. West get's 77 hours guarantee with 12 or 13 days off (30-31 day month) the term sheet has 11 days off and 73 hours.

cactusmike

Holy crap. The world must really be ending in December. Snowballs reported in hell. I agree with you!

eaglefly

AA pilots didn't choose this situation. The APA negotiated this after Parker sought us out and the result is that we have simply chosen the lessor of two evils between the as-is AMR term sheet and the U CLA. The chance of a viable business plan also helps. It matters little what each of thinks at this point as it is what it is. I understand how you feel and believe me, if the situation changes and Tomahawk is correct, both the easties and the westies will be able to breath a sigh of relief that those bat rastard AA pilots didn't mess up the good thing they got going.

I can assure you that the majority of AA pilots wouldn't openly CHOOSE to merge with you if we had another viable alternative. In fact, pilots will not decide if we do merge, but likely the other creditors and both carriers managements. Most think we WILL merge, but the question, is when. If AMR management fights off Parker and exits BK with their plan intact, then the CLA with Parker is moot and you can start your party then. As far as being "taken advantage of", I think that's a crock. USAPA has no one to blame but themselves. They're even more of an embarrassment then ALPA as a respectable bargaining agent for pilots and are the archetects of their present position.