eaglefly

Why keep pulling the string in his back ?

There is a significant number of retirements likely 7/1 and higher then normal also likely for the remainder of the year. So far this year we've had about 200 and just a few were expected due to 65. Those under 50 who have left aren't "retirements" and not sure how many are in that group. The 400 estimate after 1113 imposition was based on a fairly normal retiement schedule (and few resigning/quitting), as was the 1420 by the end of 2013. AMR has admitted that the 1420 figure doesn't mean that many would be furloughed and due to many variables (one of which is a higher then expected retirement/resignation rate necessitating a training bubble) the 400 number is also an assumption at this point.

The fact is, no one can predict when and how many AA pilots may face furlough.

aa73

Don't give me that CRAP - one iota of it! I have sat here on this forum TIME AFTER TIME, POST after POST, telling you guys that what APA did was not consistent with industry fair integration methods. IN fact what APA did is exactly what SWAPA consistently does during their merger/acquisitions - yet we don't hear ONE PEEP from your peanut gallery about them! I've mentioned that APA should have used binding neutral arbitration in deciding the AA/TWA case...AND YOU AGREED WITH ME! You even thanked me for my "non Sky Nazi" open minded attitude.

Riiight.... I'm gonna write a letter to my OWN UNION begging them to not use their own integration methods, go against the BOD and Constitution/Bylaws, skip the whole membership, and go straight to neutral binding arbitration. I'd LOOOVE to see you doing this same exact thing if you were in my shoes. The truth is, you wouldn't - see the reasons below. Go ahead... talk to any TWA poster on this board or the other, or our own APA board - they will all grudgingly admit that that "AA73 dude" is one of the few SNB's (your group's derogatory term for us) that actually sees both sides of the coin.

So now you're back to trashing everything related to AA/APA, along with fabricating stories about your tremendous years of pain. You conveniently forget to mention how you scored one of the best jobs in the industry - A UPS WIDEBODY F/O - but you still come on here crying about your "9 years of furlough" - DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN SERVE NINE YEARS OF FURLOUGH! What a load of B.S.

Go jump in the lake, Flifast. You are nothing more than a hypocrite, a bull**** artist, and a drama queen. No sympathy from me for spineless folks like you. Over and out.

Dolphinflyer

Flifast,

Perhaps you can explaing for the group how you would have handled the merge so it wasn't an "injustice" to you. Would you ignore the fact the AMR was going to eliminate a significant amount of flying done by TWA in 2001? Sure, I'm a Captain, so what if my flying is disappearing, I'll demand that I be place on top of AA FO's because I'm a Captain. There was no if's/and's/maybe's, a large part of that flying was going away, and not once did I hear a TWA guy voice anything but DOH or a relative merge that ignored these facts.

While trolling for sympathy from other airline pilots, why don't you explain that the average STL bidsheet has 8-10 hours of flights out of STL and 68-70 of flying that was always done by AA? Even half the STL to/from legs were done by AA in the past and virtually none is flown by original AA pilots.

TWA flying was eliminated by the crappy management of AMR, not APA. Your flying is virtually gone.

FliFast

Dolphin,

It has nothing to do with me, as much as it has to do with 2,300 pilots that could have joined 10,000 pilots and been unified. As of today, they are not. At AMR, they hit a homerun by allowing the greedy APA to integrate the two groups. Even Jeff Brundridge said it was a sheet sandwich and laughed knowing his job of dividing and conquering was done by the APA. The proof is that there are two camps within the AA pilot group. The AICA and the APA.

The plan of integrating the TWA pilots with the AA pilots whereas all AA Widebody pilots would be senior to all TWA widebody pilots, then all AA narrowbody Capts would be senior to all TWA narrowbody pilots, etc etc, seemed fair. However, the APA laughed that off. They made our #1 pilot (1962 hire, into a 1985 pilot, then after the integration, TWA Capts hired in 1988 and 1989 were furloughed so that AA 2000 and 2001 hires would have job security.

Even though our STL flying was reduced to nothing, it was flown by NAAtive F/Os while ALL TWA F/Os (prior to the merger) were furloughed and some Capts as well.

After 21 years, sympathy is not what I seek, it's justice for the injustices done to the profession, by the likes of the Lorenzos, Icahns, Ornsteins, and the APA.

What goes around is coming around.

FliFast

AA73,

Please tell us how the APA had anything to do with me getting a job with UPS, absolutely NOTHING !!!! No help with placement, no resume, just notes saying if you come back to AA we're going to charge you back dues for your time on furlough.

So AA73, yes your posts are reasonable most of the time, but please don't highlight your denial by saying, Well, the rape victim won the lottery after we raped them, so that must be absolved of the crime...my friend, it does not. It does not restore my marriage that failed after my layoff, and the numerous ones that did fail, the loses of house, the loss of income and ability to treat sick children..Yep, you forgot about all that didnt ya, well I hope NAAtives like yourself dont go down that road with no jobs to be had.

Fire away, I'm ready

eaglefly

If you want to say the AICA is one of the "camps" at AA, that's your opinion. If so, they only represent one domicile (SLT). The other baloney about integration methodology is fiction. The AIPA only sees full DOH as what's fair and that would be a windfall for TWA pilots considering what they brought to the table.

aa73

It has nothing to do with it at all. The reason I brought it up is because you are constantly on here reminding everyone of your pain and suffering during your 9 year furlough - and yet you constantly fail to mention that you turned down recall at AA when they called you back, due to your job at UPS. So, you complain of a 9 year furlough (understandable), but you fail to acknowledge that they recalled you INSIDE of your 9 year furlough and you turned it down? Sorry, but that reeks of hypocrisy.

No, I did not forget. Show me ONE POST where I have acknowledged that we must be absolved by the "crime" (your words, not mine.) ONE POST! As mentioned before, I have been nothing but objective when discussing the TWA deal. I have consistently seen both sides of the story, even posting my opinions on our own union board (C&R) to the ridicule of my fellow pilots. I have mentioned over and over again that the only fair way in mergers/acquisitions of this size is through a neutral binding arbitrator. You, yourself, have even told me this exact thing. And yet now - consistent with your "Jekyll and Hyde" personality - you backtrack and consider me a "TWA Hater." Sorry bro - can't help you with the dual personality thing. What I can do is retain my integrity and defend it at every chance.

Dolphinflyer

Flifast,

APA had a well founded fear that AMR would eliminate a large part of TWA flying. The merge and the numbers assigned along with the fences would have protected the TWA pilots and even gave the FO's the quickest upgrade times at AA due to the TWA age demographics.

Unfortunately, AMR's idiocy even exceeded APA's wildest imagination.

Here is the situation:

Airline A is bought by Airline B,

Airline A's flying disappears,

Airline A's pilots, decide that they'd like to do flying on Airline B's routes, and be given priority to fly those routes.

Airline B's pilots say "W-T-F?"

Airline A's pilots say, "We don't care, but we are going to sue you in hopes that a Judge will order you to give up your jobs since ours disappeared because it's just not fair"

aa73

Dolphinflyer,

Give it up. You are feeding the troll. He is not interested in logic or reasoning - he just wants constant sympathy and attention to HIS particular situation - despite the fact that he will probably outearn both of us year after year over at UPS.

Good to know that he doesn't represent the majority of ex TWA folks, many of whom I've worked with and come to know and respect quite well.

Dolphinflyer

aa73,

Agreed. Great guys and probably a lesser percentage of 'colorful' individuals that we had at AA (still a very small minority on both sides). I said this from day 1 of the merger in 2001: They should have replaced the entire AA Flight Management and Training staff with the TWA guys. They ran a truly worldwide airline that embraced Captain's authority instead of having every pregnant gray coat Gate Agent supervisor with 3 walk-talkies trying to override it every chance they can.