US Airways Exec: AMR Merger/Pilot Seniority
05-25-2012, 05:47 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
You must have pranced around your high school going FRESHMAN have no rights, only seniors matter!! Student council should only be made up of seniors, because freshman have no rights.
Why should anyone younger than you be allowed to vote in the United States. Maybe next time a draft comes only someone your age and older should be allowed to be drafted.
Why should anyone younger than you be allowed to vote in the United States. Maybe next time a draft comes only someone your age and older should be allowed to be drafted.
I cant remember college much less High School? Sory I'm to old to remember. Besides WHATS YOUR POINT??????????
05-25-2012, 05:49 AM
#93
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
05-25-2012, 05:53 AM
#94
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
05-25-2012, 06:59 AM
#95
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Whoaa there ACE. Check your facts. The flow thru/chiny jets carrot were the Crown Jewels of the 97 AE 16 year contract. Negotiated by a certain HP and endorsed by RB the ALPO Prez during that period. No pension, no right to strike, and industry based indexing for pay.
I can see now what cacti is talking about. You are completely INCORRECT..........well, it's not that you are incorrect, it's more you're a fan of what's known as a "strawman argument", i.e., in your version, you're altering facts, proclaiming that newly devised assertion as the real fact and then using the error as the foundation to proclaim me incorrect. The REAL fact is that the flow through known as Letter 3 in the AE pilots CBA and Supplement W in the APA Green Book was concocted and MEC (not pilot) ratified as an addition to the current AE CBA in MAY 1997. The new (at that time) 16-year contract was ratified by the membership 4 months later. We didn't even have a TA at the time Letter 3 became an addition to the then current CBA. Letter 3 was already a contract item and was not even subject to discussion at the fall roadshows for the new 16-year CBA. The 16Y contract had amendment rounds every 4 years that allowed alteration of up to 5 items via arbitration, so it acted in many ways like most contracts. As for pensions, what regional airline has had that.......or ever had that ?
The only regional to strike after that didn't fare so well, eh ?
Let's see how future regional airline strikes workout with the whipsaw model in effect at UAL, DAL and U (and soon AA/U) ?
Finally, considering where U east pilots have placed themselves (deliberately) on the compensation scale, you should be the LAST one criticizing ANYONE else's contract.
After this little gem of a post of yours, I think A LOT of pilots will side with the west, if you're representative of what the east has become.
This was at the demand of Eagle ALPA and AMR Eagle managment BTW, as once again no single Letter 3 pilot had any say in the matter. They both wanted that for different reason, ALPA being they are predominently mid-seniority pilots and elimination of 200 or so senior pilots improved their advancement and AMR Eagle because they wanted to divest Eagle and believed a reduction in pilot longevity expenses improved Eagle's sale chances to an outside party.
Hypocrisy at it's finest, to boot.
Well, it seems as though you're running out of arguments, as you've resorted to baseless veiled insults. Never wanted to live in or try to commute to Phoenix, so no, AWA wasn't my cup of tea.
As far as pay is concerned I will bow to your claim. The pay here at US east is pathetic. But its not how much you make, but what you do with your money that matters. Needless to say I've bought MANY beers for good friends at Delta, FedEx, and AA throughout the years. It seems my buddies are counting every penny. It must be tough getting by on $165,000/yr.
I do appreciate your concern for my economic health. I can assure you that I will survive. In your case, might have to sell that shiny Vett if that 1113c goes through.
I do appreciate your concern for my economic health. I can assure you that I will survive. In your case, might have to sell that shiny Vett if that 1113c goes through.
Last edited by eaglefly; 05-25-2012 at 07:31 AM.
05-25-2012, 09:50 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
Jesus.......now he's telling ME about what happened at MY airline !!!
I can see now what cacti is talking about. You are completely INCORRECT..........well, it's not that you are incorrect, it's more you're a fan of what's known as a "strawman argument", i.e., in your version, you're altering facts, proclaiming that newly devised assertion as the real fact and then using the error as the foundation to proclaim me incorrect. The REAL fact is that the flow through known as Letter 3 in the AE pilots CBA and Supplement W in the APA Green Book was concocted and MEC (not pilot) ratified as an addition to the current AE CBA in MAY 1997. The new (at that time) 16-year contract was ratified by the membership 4 months later. We didn't even have a TA at the time Letter 3 became an addition to the then current CBA. Letter 3 was already a contract item and was not even subject to discussion at the fall roadshows for the new 16-year CBA. The 16Y contract had amendment rounds every 4 years that allowed alteration of up to 5 items via arbitration, so it acted in many ways like most contracts. As for pensions, what regional airline has had that.......or ever had that ?
Nope, George didn't give me any such ticket. My opportunity to flow to AA was via an agreement between two unions. What Nicolau did, was give additional flowthru slots to AE pilots since TWA pilots who originally didn't have flowback rights to AE were subsequently given those by APA/AMR agreement (at the bottom of the AA seniority list). EVERY single one of those pilots is STILL at AE. He also required that a certain number of those already with AA seniority numbers be required to make a declaration that they accept or reject their flowthru rights before they knew when they would actually make the transition. That's a bad disadvantage, because it could have been years before they flowed thru and arguably in a less desirable position due to age and advancement potential. Those who still are at Eagle with AA numbers get to choose to flow (or not) at the time they are offered a new-hire class when they can examine the risk/reward equation at the last minute. No such choice for those ordered by Nic to choose without that luxury.
This was at the demand of Eagle ALPA and AMR Eagle managment BTW, as once again no single Letter 3 pilot had any say in the matter. They both wanted that for different reason, ALPA being they are predominently mid-seniority pilots and elimination of 200 or so senior pilots improved their advancement and AMR Eagle because they wanted to divest Eagle and believed a reduction in pilot longevity expenses improved Eagle's sale chances to an outside party.
Again, blaming others for things they had no control over. Ironic considering you take no responsibility for choices made by you guys for things you DID have control over. any of those who flowed thru recently don't hold lines and not all are on 5th year scale. But hey......when you can divert issues and throw gas on a smoldering fire as a distraction from your own billigerent and erronous proclaimations, why not ?
Hypocrisy at it's finest, to boot.
Yes, we must be from the same cloth, what with both of us being "bottomfeeders", eh ?
Well, it seems as though you're running out of arguments, as you've resorted to baseless veiled insults. Never wanted to live in or try to commute to Phoenix, so no, AWA wasn't my cup of tea.
Jeez, based on your posts here, I can only image your level of obnoxiousness after you've tankered up on Blatz light. At any rate, I have no idea where you think my AA pay amounts to $165K/year or that I drive a corvette......perhaps you've been reading to many Mitchell Schnurman articles ?
I can see now what cacti is talking about. You are completely INCORRECT..........well, it's not that you are incorrect, it's more you're a fan of what's known as a "strawman argument", i.e., in your version, you're altering facts, proclaiming that newly devised assertion as the real fact and then using the error as the foundation to proclaim me incorrect. The REAL fact is that the flow through known as Letter 3 in the AE pilots CBA and Supplement W in the APA Green Book was concocted and MEC (not pilot) ratified as an addition to the current AE CBA in MAY 1997. The new (at that time) 16-year contract was ratified by the membership 4 months later. We didn't even have a TA at the time Letter 3 became an addition to the then current CBA. Letter 3 was already a contract item and was not even subject to discussion at the fall roadshows for the new 16-year CBA. The 16Y contract had amendment rounds every 4 years that allowed alteration of up to 5 items via arbitration, so it acted in many ways like most contracts. As for pensions, what regional airline has had that.......or ever had that ?
Nope, George didn't give me any such ticket. My opportunity to flow to AA was via an agreement between two unions. What Nicolau did, was give additional flowthru slots to AE pilots since TWA pilots who originally didn't have flowback rights to AE were subsequently given those by APA/AMR agreement (at the bottom of the AA seniority list). EVERY single one of those pilots is STILL at AE. He also required that a certain number of those already with AA seniority numbers be required to make a declaration that they accept or reject their flowthru rights before they knew when they would actually make the transition. That's a bad disadvantage, because it could have been years before they flowed thru and arguably in a less desirable position due to age and advancement potential. Those who still are at Eagle with AA numbers get to choose to flow (or not) at the time they are offered a new-hire class when they can examine the risk/reward equation at the last minute. No such choice for those ordered by Nic to choose without that luxury.
This was at the demand of Eagle ALPA and AMR Eagle managment BTW, as once again no single Letter 3 pilot had any say in the matter. They both wanted that for different reason, ALPA being they are predominently mid-seniority pilots and elimination of 200 or so senior pilots improved their advancement and AMR Eagle because they wanted to divest Eagle and believed a reduction in pilot longevity expenses improved Eagle's sale chances to an outside party.
Again, blaming others for things they had no control over. Ironic considering you take no responsibility for choices made by you guys for things you DID have control over. any of those who flowed thru recently don't hold lines and not all are on 5th year scale. But hey......when you can divert issues and throw gas on a smoldering fire as a distraction from your own billigerent and erronous proclaimations, why not ?
Hypocrisy at it's finest, to boot.
Yes, we must be from the same cloth, what with both of us being "bottomfeeders", eh ?
Well, it seems as though you're running out of arguments, as you've resorted to baseless veiled insults. Never wanted to live in or try to commute to Phoenix, so no, AWA wasn't my cup of tea.
Jeez, based on your posts here, I can only image your level of obnoxiousness after you've tankered up on Blatz light. At any rate, I have no idea where you think my AA pay amounts to $165K/year or that I drive a corvette......perhaps you've been reading to many Mitchell Schnurman articles ?
Oh, on a final note: GLASS HOUSES my friend, GLASS HOUSES...
05-25-2012, 10:36 AM
#98
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Blah, blah, blah.. You are both verbose and incoherent. Typical traits of a seasoned politician trying to deflect blame. You would make a perfect ALPO rep!! So tell me Mr.16 yr. contract. Prior to the 97 AE CBA, how many AE pilots flowed to AA. Please try to keep your answer to less than 36 paragraphs.......... Never mind, an obvious impossibility. I will tell you 0. Why because prior to 97 there were no such provisions. Who cares!!! YOU got yours. Rationalize all you want. Most in the industry know what REALLY transpired.. I'm done here.
Oh, on a final note: GLASS HOUSES my friend, GLASS HOUSES...
Oh, on a final note: GLASS HOUSES my friend, GLASS HOUSES...
My apologies to the forum for being drawn into a pointless discussion by the delusional and incoherent.
05-25-2012, 10:57 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Bigg Bird!!
Posts: 599
I think we're getting a better picture now. It seems there is an illness involved here. Apparently those afflicted with eastophrenia simply cannot tolerate any factual information that conflicts with their delusions. For the benefit of observers existing in present reality, I'll note the trigger for the first flowthru was the arrival of the first RJ in '98 as per Letter 3 which was 4 months prior to the 16-year CBA.
My apologies to the forum for being drawn into a pointless discussion by the delusional and incoherent.
My apologies to the forum for being drawn into a pointless discussion by the delusional and incoherent.
05-25-2012, 11:44 AM
#100
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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