cactiboss

I assume they do, but guarantee you the line pilot's don't. So since I don't have a union to lobby to, I show the aa guys what we have so they may lobby their rep's if they want to.

justjack

For once I agree with Cactiboss- I put on my winter clothes before writing this just in case. But we have to take a page from the Arab Spring warriors. The internet is a resource.

cactusmike

Long term disability and short term disability are also high points in the West contract.

Just because you don't see us at the table does not mean that West pilots are shut out of the process. I will be surprised if there is not some consulting by our SMEs on some contract points. Having said that, APA will be acting in the best interests of the APA. No one expects anything different. Our hope is that our interests can coincide before the train runs away.

Tomahawk, you will get your AA. It just will be run by exAWA.

trent890

For the sake of any future new hire pilots at a combined US/AA, here is something from the west pilot contract I hope to never again see in the light of day:

Back in 2007/2008 new hire pilots for the merged USA/AWA were sent out to PHX for two weeks of basic indoctrination training not knowing if they would be "east" pilots and operate under the USA pilot contract, or "west" pilots and operate under the AWA contract. The company provided hotel accomodations for all pilots during the two weeks of basic indoc. By the second or third day of indoc, the bidding process would take place, and each pilot would be assigned their first domicile and initial equipment.

For the new hires that were assigned to the PHX domicile as "west" pilots, it was likely that initial qualification training would start the week immediately following basic indoc. Because the PHX pilots were now considered to be "in base" for the upcoming initial qualification, the company provided hotel accomodations ended at the conclusion of basic indoc.

At this point, a PHX-based new hire pilot has maybe 10 days (8 weekdays, and the 2 days of the middle weekend) to find a cheap hotel or crash pad to live at once basic indoc ends. Of course the new hire is expected to be in the classroom for 8 hours during the weekdays, so finding a place to live becomes relegated to evenings and the one upcoming weekend. So much for using that first weekend to head home to reconnect with friends and family, and to get the mind off of the airline training for a while.

Maybe the new PHX pilot doesn't want to commute, and is looking for a more permanent living arrangement such as a house or apartment. Dealing with real estate issues is probably not something to have on the brain while trying to make it through an airline training program. There's also the issue of paying for this new place to live. It is quite possible that the new hire pilot hasn't even been paid their first check from US Airways at this point.

Then there's the issue of transportation. Mostly likely the new hire came to PHX by air, utilizing a company provided reservation. It's going to be a challenge to find a place to live when your car isn't with you. Someone could always rent a car, but that just costs money from the paycheck the company hasn't paid them yet. Not to mention the fact that once initial qualification training starts, the new hire pilot will need some form of transportation to get from their new crashpad/hotel/apartment/home to the training center every day.

The way that other airlines deal with new hire training expenses are much better, in my opinion. Similar to the process for new hires at US Airways "east": Company provided hotel accomodations until the completion of initial qualification. Transportation provided between the airport, training center and the hotel. Moving days available at the pilot's request after the conclusion of OE in order for the pilot to establish themselves in the new domicile. If moving days are not available on the days requested by the pilot, then the company is responsible to reimburse the pilot for reasonable expenses incurred until the moving days are available.

Hopefully a new contract with AA will eliminate some of the smaller airline, low cost company ways of thinking that was part of the AWA contract. Just as the former AWA guys say there are some great things in their contract, there are also a few things that really suck for a new employee. New hire pilots should not be subsidizing the costs to the company as they progress through the training program if the company assigns them to their first domicile in the same city where the training is done.

Sliceback

Are you comparing West vs. East or West vs AA's plans?

flybywire44

LCC has a great jump seat program; telephone phone reservation system, cockpit jumpseat is positive space (immune to weight and balance) and LCC has unlimited cabin jumpseats (susceptible to weight and balance).

Capt Hindsight

Trent, not to excuse the practice, but I'm betting this is/was a holdover from pre-merger AWA in which PHX was pretty much the only domicile (OK, and a little LAS). Once you went to indoc, and with no where else to be based, they considered you "home."

But I agree, that's gotta go.

Capt Hindsight

Based on past conversations with my AA friends, I think US non-rev provisions might be better too. Plus US furloughed pilots kept their non-rev privileges throughout their furlough.

aa73

AA pretty much has the worst non rev system out of all the airlines.

-Coach only becomes free after the first 5 years of employment.
-First Class is not free until after 25 years of employment.
-Positive space only happens when deadheading to a flight assignment. Everything else is lower priority and not necessarily positive space - even returning home from training.
-When deadheading with an entire cockpit and F/A crew, first class is first come, first serve. I've seen flights to South America with the entire 9 F/As in First and the three pilots in coach.
-No F/A jumpseats for pilots - period.
-Furloughees lost their pass privileges after (I believe) 90 days
I could go on.... Bring on the USAir nonrev rules, it will be a welcome change!

X Rated

You don't want to go on a seniority based nonrev system. It sounds great on paper but try taking your family somewhere only to have a 35 year ramp employee walk up ten minutes prior to departure and take what would have been your seats.

Questions:

1) How enforceable is this "deal" between Parker and the APA? Seems to me like it was done outside the RLA.

2) Has USAPA considered filing anything that would be considered "Failure to Treat"?