Originally Posted by eaglefly

Ahh, the management "spinmaster" is back. For AA labor, it's the only "love" they've felt in 10 years. Since then, it's been scorn, disregard, abuse, belittlement and any number of other negative interactions.

I suppose that's fault of the ENTIRE front-line labor at AA too, eh ?



I guess a wage increase doesn't count, but it's more then just a "little ole' wage increase". Considering the proper pay band placement of the A319's and A321's, the absence of gutting various International and night times, etc. and other things, it adds up to substantial differences. The DC plan details are still not specific, but bound to be at least equal. Scope is MUCH better then AMR's blank check of 250+ E-190's for Eagle and unlimited code-sharing that hands the rest of AA domestic over to others. E-190's with U stay at MAINLINE. My bet says Parker will be better with PBS (I've heard it's not so bad there, at least on the west side). In AMR's draconian hands, PBS would be a nightmare for pilots. Not worried about sick issues with this deal and job protection is positive vs. negative with AMR.

Perhaps Parker knows how to RUN an airline and thus might be able to make his plan work ?

Your attempt to gloss this down compared to AMR's "death sheet" is laughable, but let's say all the above baloney of yours isn't covered with green fur.

If that's the case, what does that say about an entire labor force so eager to abandon their current management, they'd take an equal deal from someone else ?

It says to me, the current management of this airline is SO far out of touch with their employees, they're not even in the same company. It also says, creditors and investors should seriously question ANY future crafted or controlled by those whose labor has abandoned them en masse, so easily.



Clearly you are not only anti-labor, but anti-APA as well as indicated by points 4-9 above. The only thing that has failed worse in the last 4 1/2 months worse then the handling of this bankruptcy, is your feeble attempt to protray yourself as just another "fellow pilot" looking to "discuss the issues". Your agenda (assigned or voluntary) is oozing from every pore.

We are where we are and AA employees have had enough. Parker didn't have to work all that hard to make this happen and that says everything. Clearly, if your bosses are anything like you, nothing's been learned and thus the show will go on as AA labor has nowhere to go but elsewhere.

Originally Posted by tomahawk58

you are correct, i am in fact anti-apa bod, at least the current bod which has mis-served the membership.

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

You can always be counted on to apply the appropriate spin!

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

So, Doug did in fact offer his own pilots, FA's, FSC's and management team wages equivalent to AA and DAL prior to the (midnight hotel room meeting) with the APA leadership? We must have missed the announcement!

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

You are correct, I am in fact anti-APA BOD, at least the current BOD which has mis-served the membership. There's nothing wrong with stating that tough choices need to be made instead of placating the membership. Telling folks what they want to hear is NOT leadership!

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

The BOD chose to not pass on the offer on the table prior to BK. Of course they're smarter than the membership at large. Strangely enough, what's being offered by Doug if you can call it that, is eerily similar to AA's offer prior to the BK filing. Let's not let facts stand in the way of an agenda.

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

It funny that you mention the whole work force, when on this forum, you stated time and again that the other work groups don't matter to the pilots. A little bit of revisionist history I guess.

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

I like how suddenly the APA BOD is all buddy-buddy with the other employees when it suits their aim, otherwise, there isn't much love for the FA's, FSC's and even lowly-paid middle managers that work hard to keep AA strong.

Originally Posted by Tomhawk58

This board is infested with know-it-all's who really should be out running their own airlines. Oh wait, you wouldn't be able to whine then!

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Isn't it interestig I'm not selling anything on this forum ?

You seem to be though. It would appear that the deals with Parker are selling themselves and for good reason.



Still a bit early to sharpshoot irrelevent details, but this pointless statement surprises me not.



"Tough choices" like blindly accepting the wholesale destruction of the pilot group and following this managments blind promises of...........nothing ?

Thanks, but no thanks.



There's a VERY good reason they did. That didn't matter anyway, as A. it would have been shot down by the membership as especially the scope clauses were a death sentence and B. AMR declared BK before any vote would have taken place.



OK, now this is beyond misrepresentation, it is an out-and-out LIE. I defy you to show me any post of mine where I state other AA employees "don't matter". I guess when you have no argument or have run out of one, you resort to this tactic. I can't say I'm surprised. You are slithering now, shedding your skin.



Actually, the fact the entire 3 front-line labor unions are working AS ONE is inspiring. I think that going forward, they SHOULD act as one. Your attempt to drive a wedge between the 3 labor groups is another demonstration of your serpentine wiggle.



If you don't like what this board has to offer, feel free to leave. YOU came here specifically to find fertile ground to peddle your anti-union/anti-pilot rhetoric and you've failed miserably. Now, it is you doing the most whining when developments have gone in predicatble directions that you dislike.

Personally I'd get used to it, as unless AMR truly changes their colors, it's going to get worse if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

There are two thing things I admire, one is passion and the other is loyalty. I'm sorry but midnight affairs have never set well with me! The "supposedly lover" never says anything except how easy all will be; sounds familiar doesn't it!

One of the things I've always admired about the ex-TWA group is their almost rabid-like love for their former company, even after 3 trips through BK. This fickleness that seem to inhabit this forum must be the purview of the young and the not-so-young who've come to the airlines with wanderlust and entitlement as their primary motivational drivers.

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

So Eaglefly and others, just what did US, DAL, NWA, CO and UAL achieve in BK?

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

I really like how you purposely chose to defend the APA BOD, but left absence any defense of the US employees that have labored just as hard to secure something they deemed just as if not more meaningful!

Speaks volumes! You're right, it's all about what we AA pilots are "entitled" to! It's unthinkable that anything or anyone else gets in the way of what we deserve!.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

I always say loyalty is a good thing..............taken in moderation.

Ohh......and blind loyalty to those who have stiffed you time and again is not something I admire. Loyalty is a concept that is earned.



Ummm...........profitability ?

Originally Posted by Tomahawk58

Eaglefly,

Everything you and others seems to ascribe to Doug and Scott, you entirely dismiss in Tom whose been in the job since 11/29/11! I find that quite interesting.

You appear so ready to go all in with a "lover" that's left his own "wife" stranded but because he says this one will be different, you and others are ready to chuck it all on a promise!

You are ready to dismiss a plan of reorganization that you haven't even seen from either Tom's team not to mention Doug's. I know, the "lover" made a promise, so it must be true.

You want to call me a management apologist for being a strong AAer, so be it.

I like the way you frame things: "don't believe anyone that doesn't tell you what you want to hear"!

Have you ever considered starting your own airline? What would your model look like, How much would you pay your pilots, FA's and other employees, What would your revenue strategy look like, and how would you compete in the marketplace?

How posting a business plan that would pay the most and be consistently profitable.

It's easy to post on a forum, that includes me, but actually running a sustainable airline is quite another matter indeed. Doug know that, and he'll play anyone to achieve his aim.