AMR to ask court to reject labor contracts
03-23-2012, 03:03 AM
#21
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
This also is an after-the-fact justification for the position taken by the APA BOD. AA was in fact willing to go all in with the APA taking the lead to help move the company forward. The road chosen by the APA BOD was not leadership but chest pounding and hollow bravado! Not a single accomplishment that moves the pilot group forward has been made by the BOD since the 2003 contract.
I think it's still posted it somewhere, so go back a look at the last comprehensive offer on the table by the company. See if you can find a similar proposal put forward by the APA; you won't.
Those awaiting the demise of AA will be sadly disappointed. AA is in a much stronger position than either DAL, NWA or UAL when those entities entered BK. Now, folks here can argue till the cows come home that we're doomed, but I view the global landscape, There are lot's of folks waiting for the opportunity to work for AA. Let's revisit this in about five years to see where things stand.
I think it's still posted it somewhere, so go back a look at the last comprehensive offer on the table by the company. See if you can find a similar proposal put forward by the APA; you won't.
Those awaiting the demise of AA will be sadly disappointed. AA is in a much stronger position than either DAL, NWA or UAL when those entities entered BK. Now, folks here can argue till the cows come home that we're doomed, but I view the global landscape, There are lot's of folks waiting for the opportunity to work for AA. Let's revisit this in about five years to see where things stand.
03-23-2012, 05:14 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Global Express Captain
Posts: 81
This revisionist position is quite interesting. There was no offer of binding arbitration by the APA leadership prior to entering BK! In fact, much of what the APA BOD deemed unworthy to to past on to the membership for a vote is now seen as pretty good. Additionally, many here were openly advocating a "let the judge decide" position.
Ultimately, the choice made by the leadership was no choice at all but a cop out. On the table were pay raises, pensions retained for those currently on the property, etc. Clearly, the APA had the choice to lead but chose rhetoric over substance, and we are now paying for that. Once again, we find ourselves at a choice point and decisions have been made!
The landscape of the industry has structurally changed and we as pilots can either adapt, leave the industry to those willing to adapt and move forward or stay and incessantly whine about what we're entitled to without any viable solutions to help our respective company's regain sustained profitablility. There's no race to the bottom or top, then race is what we collective choose to run!
Ultimately, the choice made by the leadership was no choice at all but a cop out. On the table were pay raises, pensions retained for those currently on the property, etc. Clearly, the APA had the choice to lead but chose rhetoric over substance, and we are now paying for that. Once again, we find ourselves at a choice point and decisions have been made!
The landscape of the industry has structurally changed and we as pilots can either adapt, leave the industry to those willing to adapt and move forward or stay and incessantly whine about what we're entitled to without any viable solutions to help our respective company's regain sustained profitablility. There's no race to the bottom or top, then race is what we collective choose to run!
03-23-2012, 06:18 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
This also is an after-the-fact justification for the position taken by the APA BOD. AA was in fact willing to go all in with the APA taking the lead to help move the company forward. The road chosen by the APA BOD was not leadership but chest pounding and hollow bravado! Not a single accomplishment that moves the pilot group forward has been made by the BOD since the 2003 contract.
I think it's still posted it somewhere, so go back a look at the last comprehensive offer on the table by the company. See if you can find a similar proposal put forward by the APA; you won't.
Those awaiting the demise of AA will be sadly disappointed. AA is in a much stronger position than either DAL, NWA or UAL when those entities entered BK. Now, folks here can argue till the cows come home that we're doomed, but I view the global landscape, There are lot's of folks waiting for the opportunity to work for AA. Let's revisit this in about five years to see where things stand.
I think it's still posted it somewhere, so go back a look at the last comprehensive offer on the table by the company. See if you can find a similar proposal put forward by the APA; you won't.
Those awaiting the demise of AA will be sadly disappointed. AA is in a much stronger position than either DAL, NWA or UAL when those entities entered BK. Now, folks here can argue till the cows come home that we're doomed, but I view the global landscape, There are lot's of folks waiting for the opportunity to work for AA. Let's revisit this in about five years to see where things stand.
03-23-2012, 06:27 AM
#24
Feeling blessed.
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Was I finally in the right place at the right time?
Posts: 540
WSJ: American Airlines Seeks to Reject Labor Contracts - WSJ.com
American Airlines Seeks to Reject Labor Contracts
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By SUSAN CAREY And JACK NICAS
The parent of American Airlines said Thursday it would ask its bankruptcy judge to reject its existing labor contracts so it can impose its own terms in pursuit of $1.25 billion in savings the carrier maintains are essential for its survival.
The widely expected move comes after weeks of talks between AMR Corp. and its main unions that have failed to yield agreement on job and benefit cuts and work-rule concessions.
The rejection of contracts has proved a watershed in previous airline bankruptcies, with pilots at Delta Air Lines Inc. DAL +0.42% coming to the brink of strike action after management sought to impose fresh terms. Staff at United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc. LCC 0.00% both agreed to deals after management threatened to impose terms.
If AMR files the motion next week as planned, it would need to prove to U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Sean Lane that the labor contracts are onerous and that it can't restructure without concessions.
Judge Lane would have up to three weeks to call a hearing on the motion, and up to one month after that to decide. The judge can grant extensions if both sides agree, which has been typical in past airline bankruptcies. If Judge Lane ultimately rules American needs the concessions and can't reach them through negotiations, the company would be allowed to impose new contract terms on its 88,000 employees.
Jeff Brundage, American's senior vice president of human resources, said in a memo to staff that mounting financial pressure and competition from stronger rivals are prompting it to seek court approval to abrogate its current contracts. While American would prefer to reach consensual accords with its unions, he said, time is running out.
American, which filed for bankruptcy-court protection four months ago, on Feb. 1 told employees that it needed to cut labor costs by 20% to successfully restructure. The Fort Worth, Texas, company has been bargaining with its three major unions since, but talks have gone slowly and the unions have protested the steep cuts, which include axing 13,000 workers and increasing hours for pilots and flight attendants.
The Allied Pilots Association, which represents some 10,000 American pilots, remains committed to reaching a consensual deal, "but we're not sure the same depth of commitment exists on the management side," spokesman Gregg Overman said. Seeking to impose cuts on employees "carries significant risk," he said, because it can hurt morale. "Our pilots have spent the better part of a decade working under concessionary contracts," he said, "so this has to be considered demoralizing."
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants said AMR management has been unwilling to budge in negotiations and now is "resorting to the take it or leave it tactics, which never result in real success but only resentment and turmoil."
"New aircraft, lie-flat seating, and elegant first class meals do not an airline make," the attendants' union said in a statement. "It takes 80,000 workers."
The Transport Workers Union, which represents employees at both American Airlines and its American Eagle commuter unit, said it would prefer to reach consensual contracts, but are prepared to defend their members in court.
Harvey Miller, AMR's lead bankruptcy lawyer, said in court Thursday that the company continues "good-faith" negotiations with its nine unions, but barring a "profound change," it will try to terminate contracts. "American still desires a consensual resolution, if that is possible," he said.
On Wednesday, AMR told the 13,500 employees of American Eagle that it needs $75 million in annual savings from them as well. Negotiations are set to begin soon.
—Joseph Checkler contributed to this article.
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected] and Jack Nicas at [email protected]
American Airlines Seeks to Reject Labor Contracts
Article
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Comments (10)
MORE IN LAW »
Save
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By SUSAN CAREY And JACK NICAS
The parent of American Airlines said Thursday it would ask its bankruptcy judge to reject its existing labor contracts so it can impose its own terms in pursuit of $1.25 billion in savings the carrier maintains are essential for its survival.
The widely expected move comes after weeks of talks between AMR Corp. and its main unions that have failed to yield agreement on job and benefit cuts and work-rule concessions.
The rejection of contracts has proved a watershed in previous airline bankruptcies, with pilots at Delta Air Lines Inc. DAL +0.42% coming to the brink of strike action after management sought to impose fresh terms. Staff at United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc. LCC 0.00% both agreed to deals after management threatened to impose terms.
If AMR files the motion next week as planned, it would need to prove to U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Sean Lane that the labor contracts are onerous and that it can't restructure without concessions.
Judge Lane would have up to three weeks to call a hearing on the motion, and up to one month after that to decide. The judge can grant extensions if both sides agree, which has been typical in past airline bankruptcies. If Judge Lane ultimately rules American needs the concessions and can't reach them through negotiations, the company would be allowed to impose new contract terms on its 88,000 employees.
Jeff Brundage, American's senior vice president of human resources, said in a memo to staff that mounting financial pressure and competition from stronger rivals are prompting it to seek court approval to abrogate its current contracts. While American would prefer to reach consensual accords with its unions, he said, time is running out.
American, which filed for bankruptcy-court protection four months ago, on Feb. 1 told employees that it needed to cut labor costs by 20% to successfully restructure. The Fort Worth, Texas, company has been bargaining with its three major unions since, but talks have gone slowly and the unions have protested the steep cuts, which include axing 13,000 workers and increasing hours for pilots and flight attendants.
The Allied Pilots Association, which represents some 10,000 American pilots, remains committed to reaching a consensual deal, "but we're not sure the same depth of commitment exists on the management side," spokesman Gregg Overman said. Seeking to impose cuts on employees "carries significant risk," he said, because it can hurt morale. "Our pilots have spent the better part of a decade working under concessionary contracts," he said, "so this has to be considered demoralizing."
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants said AMR management has been unwilling to budge in negotiations and now is "resorting to the take it or leave it tactics, which never result in real success but only resentment and turmoil."
"New aircraft, lie-flat seating, and elegant first class meals do not an airline make," the attendants' union said in a statement. "It takes 80,000 workers."
The Transport Workers Union, which represents employees at both American Airlines and its American Eagle commuter unit, said it would prefer to reach consensual contracts, but are prepared to defend their members in court.
Harvey Miller, AMR's lead bankruptcy lawyer, said in court Thursday that the company continues "good-faith" negotiations with its nine unions, but barring a "profound change," it will try to terminate contracts. "American still desires a consensual resolution, if that is possible," he said.
On Wednesday, AMR told the 13,500 employees of American Eagle that it needs $75 million in annual savings from them as well. Negotiations are set to begin soon.
—Joseph Checkler contributed to this article.
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected] and Jack Nicas at [email protected]
03-23-2012, 06:34 AM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
This revisionist position is quite interesting. There was no offer of binding arbitration by the APA leadership prior to entering BK! In fact, much of what the APA BOD deemed unworthy to to past on to the membership for a vote is now seen as pretty good. Additionally, many here were openly advocating a "let the judge decide" position.
Ultimately, the choice made by the leadership was no choice at all but a cop out. On the table were pay raises, pensions retained for those currently on the property, etc. Clearly, the APA had the choice to lead but chose rhetoric over substance, and we are now paying for that. Once again, we find ourselves at a choice point and decisions have been made!
The landscape of the industry has structurally changed and we as pilots can either adapt, leave the industry to those willing to adapt and move forward or stay and incessantly whine about what we're entitled to without any viable solutions to help our respective company's regain sustained profitablility. There's no race to the bottom or top, then race is what we collective choose to run!
Ultimately, the choice made by the leadership was no choice at all but a cop out. On the table were pay raises, pensions retained for those currently on the property, etc. Clearly, the APA had the choice to lead but chose rhetoric over substance, and we are now paying for that. Once again, we find ourselves at a choice point and decisions have been made!
The landscape of the industry has structurally changed and we as pilots can either adapt, leave the industry to those willing to adapt and move forward or stay and incessantly whine about what we're entitled to without any viable solutions to help our respective company's regain sustained profitablility. There's no race to the bottom or top, then race is what we collective choose to run!
The moral here is duplicity and untrustworthiness and it appears it will be the foundation of the future AA as nothing has materially changed at this carrier. Normally, I'd say you are in fantasyland, but we all know your agenda.
Last edited by eaglefly; 03-23-2012 at 06:54 AM.
03-23-2012, 06:49 AM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
As a reminder, there is an entire industry who's sole purpose is to weaken and/or bust unions. This industry is supported by many corporations and a few wealthy individuals and use many tactics. Information......actually DISINFORMATION is one of their major weapons and the use of "shills" to spread that disinformation thru various means, I think is definitely in play here.
03-25-2012, 07:32 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 181
As a reminder, there is an entire industry who's sole purpose is to weaken and/or bust unions. This industry is supported by many corporations and a few wealthy individuals and use many tactics. Information......actually DISINFORMATION is one of their major weapons and the use of "shills" to spread that disinformation thru various means, I think is definitely in play here.
03-26-2012, 02:15 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 262
As a reminder, there is an entire industry who's sole purpose is to weaken and/or bust unions. This industry is supported by many corporations and a few wealthy individuals and use many tactics. Information......actually DISINFORMATION is one of their major weapons and the use of "shills" to spread that disinformation thru various means, I think is definitely in play here.
Who's the one putting out disinformation here?
You don't have to agree that the economic and structural landscape of the airline has changed, that's certainly your choice, but in an effort to bolster your position, your only tool is to attack others! Thankfully, most can judge for themselves.
03-26-2012, 03:52 AM
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
So, was binding arbitration proffered prior to the BK filing? Was or wasn't the DB plan for those currently on the property still in place from the last proposal by the company? Were pay raises offered as well in the last proposal? Was the offer sent to the membership for consideration?
Who's the one putting out disinformation here?
You don't have to agree that the economic and structural landscape of the airline has changed, that's certainly your choice, but in an effort to bolster your position, your only tool is to attack others! Thankfully, most can judge for themselves.
Who's the one putting out disinformation here?
You don't have to agree that the economic and structural landscape of the airline has changed, that's certainly your choice, but in an effort to bolster your position, your only tool is to attack others! Thankfully, most can judge for themselves.
Arbitration wasn't proffered then, but this term sheet/money grab wasn't in place either. Face it......management has been exploiting their leverage for half a decade, first stalling out the broken NMB process and not aggressively negotiating because the timing wasn't in their interest right up until that "proposal" was put out a few weeks before C11 filing (you know.....AFTER all that pre BK prep, like securing aircraft orders, etc.). That WAS the first proposal put out by the company in 5 years and was assumed to be a starting point for serious negotiations. We got snookered.........again. Of course, so did everyone else this time including the analysts who all agreed AMR wouldn't file BK with several years operating cash before sinking to levels other carriers filed at. Then, over the last few months the company "finds" another 700 million boosting it's BK funding to about 4.8 Billion and then puts out the term sheet demanding the worst mainline compensation/job security/work rules across the board compared to our primary competition, claiming AMR is a poor house and now needs regional airline compensation levels (including work rules and scope) to compete. They come up with MORE money, but claim the months old proposal that is competitive with UAL and DAL, is no longer competitive for them ?
Please.
On top of that (aside from recent meager scraps tossed that you mention), it would appear that they've once again folded their arms in a "take it or leave it" position apparently believing their leverage with the judge to be superior. The willingness to freeze DB's has nothing to due with employee love or altruism, it's to get the PBGC off their backs, i.e., a self-serving move. Additionally, saving that could be used as justification to keep the other draconian desires in place, thus having multiple benefits. It's easy for you to throw rocks as you won't be living under our house of horrors if this term sheet dream (nightmare) is realized. The bottom half of the AA pilot seniority list is toast under this plan and so what's left to hold onto, so perhaps it's time to discuss the future of AA over tea and scones with Doug or others and get the best deal for the most employees ?
It's obvious at this point AA is simply going back down the same old road with the same old folks and look where that has gotten us so far...........yes, the same old destination. It sounds like the UCC has the MEL out and are fondling the inop stickers and may be ready to defer this management plan. I agree that the economic structure of the arline has to change, but without a culture change, it will only lead to the same destination and that's where we are right now. Nothing's changed here Tom. I see no new ideas and plenty of hypothetical promises, but the same duck is here walking and talking like it used to and simply gutting the employees ISN'T the foundation for "rebuilding" AA. Yes, certain economic changes are necessary, but without culture change we'll never row together.........
.......and if we aren't rowing together, how can we win together ?
I mean if you really look at it, this term sheet really only results in about half of us ultimately being thrown overboard...........and after all those years of rowing too.
Last edited by eaglefly; 03-26-2012 at 08:43 AM.
03-26-2012, 03:56 AM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
More the aware of this, but I don't recall any banning. In fact, I was among those who pointed out the obvious...........and it IS obvious.
Last edited by eaglefly; 03-26-2012 at 04:16 AM.
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