AA or Delta at this moment
07-05-2024, 07:08 AM
#431
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 222
Fair question. No, I live in base and bid reserve. But as I said, I’m probably on the high end of efficiency by working smarter, not harder.
My broader point was replying to/refuting doubts that that a 85% NB captain at DL could work mostly-commutable trips, working 12-13 days while earning 80 hours of pay, and/or that those trips are miserable regional type flying. In the contrary, that is very attainable at DL presently with reasonable trips.
My broader point was replying to/refuting doubts that that a 85% NB captain at DL could work mostly-commutable trips, working 12-13 days while earning 80 hours of pay, and/or that those trips are miserable regional type flying. In the contrary, that is very attainable at DL presently with reasonable trips.
07-05-2024, 09:05 AM
#432
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
So you're including unused reserve days as "days off" to come up with your "8.5 days of work" a month average.
That argument has been beaten to death on APC.
A buddy of mine- AA WB FO- used the same style of fuzzy math to tell me he worked 3 days in June for 102.25 hours of pay. 34 hours per day worked. Short call reserve guarantee is 76 hours, and got an OG ("over guarantee") 5 day trip paying 26.25 with deadhead-only days on day 1 and 5 that he no-showed, shrinking said 5 day trip into 3 days gone from home. Unused every other reserve day. I consider any reserve day to be a work day, but a good deal nonetheless, even if I'm skeptical of how he did his calculations.
That argument has been beaten to death on APC.
A buddy of mine- AA WB FO- used the same style of fuzzy math to tell me he worked 3 days in June for 102.25 hours of pay. 34 hours per day worked. Short call reserve guarantee is 76 hours, and got an OG ("over guarantee") 5 day trip paying 26.25 with deadhead-only days on day 1 and 5 that he no-showed, shrinking said 5 day trip into 3 days gone from home. Unused every other reserve day. I consider any reserve day to be a work day, but a good deal nonetheless, even if I'm skeptical of how he did his calculations.
One month does not a trend make. That’s just silly. Just like on the opposite end of the spectrum, like at the height of Covid recovery (with nearly unlimited premium) is silly. Neither are any kind of norm to be cited in a thread titled “AA or Delta at this moment”. past 12 month averages, however, are meaningful and instructive to the thread.
I’m not going to reopen a reserve work argument, except to say you won’t ever convince me I “work” 17 days a month. That’s absolutely ridiculous, and a non-credible argument. If you want to argue unused SC days “count” as a commuter, that’s fine with me. Said another way, my family sees me 22.5 full days a month on average.
And again, I said I’m at the high end of efficiency. I didn’t claim to be the average, simply what is reasonably attainable without crazy games or jumping through hoops. And even more so to backup what Kangoala posted, which is not atypical. It’s just a discussion, no one is attacking AA here.
It’s very attainable at AA too, just gotta be smart with it. I worked 14 days in June for 102 hours. 14 days in May for 136.5 hours (lots of RA premium). 93% NB CA bidding LC reserve. 662 pay hours YTD. More work days than I’d prefer, but not too bad for someone with 33 months on property.
07-06-2024, 07:06 AM
#433
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
It’s very attainable at AA too, just gotta be smart with it. I worked 14 days in June for 102 hours. 14 days in May for 136.5 hours (lots of RA premium). 93% NB CA bidding LC reserve. 662 pay hours YTD. More work days than I’d prefer, but not too bad for someone with 33 months on property.
07-06-2024, 07:48 AM
#434
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 214
A 31.5 hour 5 day that's only commutable on 1 end? Yuck. That's garbage. I wouldn't be using that as an example to brag how great things are over at Widget.
It's attainable everywhere. But don't tell a widget they aren't the best air line. You'll never win that argument. They are the best of the best. Just ask them. It says a lot that they're all over here on the AA forum defending their momma's honor.
It's attainable everywhere. But don't tell a widget they aren't the best air line. You'll never win that argument. They are the best of the best. Just ask them. It says a lot that they're all over here on the AA forum defending their momma's honor.
I have close friends over there that were 2 year upgrades coming up on 3 and they generally do have decent schedules in the range of 16-17 off and mostly commutable on both ends.
07-06-2024, 10:54 AM
#435
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,223
A 31.5 hour 5 day that's only commutable on 1 end? Yuck. That's garbage. I wouldn't be using that as an example to brag how great things are over at Widget.
It's attainable everywhere. But don't tell a widget they aren't the best air line. You'll never win that argument. They are the best of the best. Just ask them. It says a lot that they're all over here on the AA forum defending their momma's honor.
It's attainable everywhere. But don't tell a widget they aren't the best air line. You'll never win that argument. They are the best of the best. Just ask them. It says a lot that they're all over here on the AA forum defending their momma's honor.
07-06-2024, 11:44 AM
#436
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,951
I'm at 45% in seat and I have 11 days off/credit this month, 12 last month (not sure on credit). I have no idea how I f'd so badly as previous months I've at least been 14-15 days off. AA schedules aren't great tbh, I have no idea how Delta is getting 17-18 days off a month for junior lineholders. How are their days so much more efficient?
07-06-2024, 03:27 PM
#437
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 31
I'm at 45% in seat and I have 11 days off/credit this month, 12 last month (not sure on credit). I have no idea how I f'd so badly as previous months I've at least been 14-15 days off. AA schedules aren't great tbh, I have no idea how Delta is getting 17-18 days off a month for junior lineholders. How are their days so much more efficient?
There are also less soft time across the board. UA/DAL pilots can essentially work 13-14 days and credit the same as an AA pilot working 16-17.
AA pilots pretty much always had to work more for the same pay.
If you want more time off, become an APA "volunteer". There are lots of schemes you can do to essentially build your own schedule.
Last edited by mudpie; 07-06-2024 at 03:43 PM.
07-06-2024, 04:49 PM
#438
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
It's attainable everywhere. But don't tell a widget they aren't the best air line. You'll never win that argument. They are the best of the best. Just ask them. It says a lot that they're all over here on the AA forum defending their momma's honor.
That's because they are. I think it's entirely relevant to any discussion how much folks are getting used on reserve. My one data point is that I consistently spend 22.5 days a month on average at home with my family (albeit at mid category seniority in my case).
07-06-2024, 10:05 PM
#439
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 545
Okay, since you asked the question. First, that math is actually 6.15 to 6.66 hours per day average of pay. That's only about an hour above ADG per day, and is very attainable at DL, even without premium. DL company stats for August show, with a handful of statistical outlier categories, between 50-60% of domestic trips are commutable on both ends, and 80+% are commutable on one end. NB fleet average is 2.1 legs per day.
I'm a mid-seniority domestic captain, and am probably on the higher end here. I averaged 97 hours of pay on 8.5 days of work per month over the last 12. That's over 10 hours of pay per day worked, and only about 10% of that is premium. Work smarter not harder.
I'm a mid-seniority domestic captain, and am probably on the higher end here. I averaged 97 hours of pay on 8.5 days of work per month over the last 12. That's over 10 hours of pay per day worked, and only about 10% of that is premium. Work smarter not harder.
07-07-2024, 04:03 AM
#440
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
Interesting take coming from someone who's post history is more in other airline's forums than your own. Besides, all I see are a couple DL pilots commenting in a thread with thier employer's name in the thread title. No one is attacking AA, or putting you down (well, one guy tried and I deleted the post). We are just adding a few data points for comparison sake, as they are 100% entitled and allowed to do.
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