Sign the alpa card - end apa dysfunction
06-19-2024, 05:37 AM
#82
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
AA Pilots left ALPA because ALPA was prioritizing ALPA National's self interest over the interests of AA pilots and that is as true today as it was when back then. AA pilots will have the same problems with ALPA MEC/LEC Reps as they have with APA Reps but with an additional layer of ALPA National Fat Cats looking out for their own self interest at our expense.
06-19-2024, 05:56 AM
#83
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 63
Really? Because I remember being a pilot for an AA wholly owned, negotiating with Doug Parker when all three of AA's wholly owned regional carriers were all represented by ALPA and I don't recall ALPA doing anything other than looking out for ALPA National's owned self interest. If AA pilots ever do vote in ALPA, when that honey moon period is over, reality is going to hit them hard. There is a reason AA pilots left ALPA and formed their own union. AA pilots for ALPA are chasing a fantasy.
06-19-2024, 06:37 AM
#84
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
I was at an alpa carrier before coming to AA. Seems like apa is better at some things alpa is better at others.
From where I sit they do prettymuch the same thing and I certainly don't see anything that justifies the extra 0.8% of earnings (1% vs 1.8%). Perspnally that difference is worth over 100k in career earnings. Unions are unions they all have their ups and downs just stick with the ones with the lowest fees.
From where I sit they do prettymuch the same thing and I certainly don't see anything that justifies the extra 0.8% of earnings (1% vs 1.8%). Perspnally that difference is worth over 100k in career earnings. Unions are unions they all have their ups and downs just stick with the ones with the lowest fees.
So aside from the fact ALPA at mainline is a different world then Alpa at eagle. APA is broken and most of the stuff they do can’t touch ALPA. Also it’s different being a pilot at a regional, negotiating is different because you are a contractor not an employee of the parent company.
The point is yes ALPA is a completely different union if you're a mainline member. Don't judge them by how much you got screwed at your regional. That was AAA ball not the major leagues.
06-19-2024, 06:37 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,335
correct. APA is good at protecting themselves, and prioritizing contract items that only benefit the most senior. ALPA is good at actually serving its pilots and winning the best possible contract for everyone.
Why do Delta and United have 18 hour call outs on reserve in the new contracts while AA still only gets 12 (don’t give me “we have 14” because we only have 14 during DOTC which basically means nothing.) DL and UAL also get an hour of pay if they go unused if they have been escalated to short call ( which can only happen a handful of days a month.) Again APA doesn’t care because they aren’t the ones sitting reserve.
Why do Delta and United have 18 hour call outs on reserve in the new contracts while AA still only gets 12 (don’t give me “we have 14” because we only have 14 during DOTC which basically means nothing.) DL and UAL also get an hour of pay if they go unused if they have been escalated to short call ( which can only happen a handful of days a month.) Again APA doesn’t care because they aren’t the ones sitting reserve.
06-19-2024, 06:43 AM
#86
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
Seems to me 18 hours call up all but 5 days a month is a much better deal than we have...
Oh and reserve goes senior there. There are fleets where the bottom pilots are forced into a line. Especially on the widebodies.
06-19-2024, 06:43 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
I was at an alpa carrier before coming to AA. Seems like apa is better at some things alpa is better at others.
From where I sit they do prettymuch the same thing and I certainly don't see anything that justifies the extra 0.8% of earnings (1% vs 1.8%). Perspnally that difference is worth over 100k in career earnings. Unions are unions they all have their ups and downs just stick with the ones with the lowest fees.
From where I sit they do prettymuch the same thing and I certainly don't see anything that justifies the extra 0.8% of earnings (1% vs 1.8%). Perspnally that difference is worth over 100k in career earnings. Unions are unions they all have their ups and downs just stick with the ones with the lowest fees.
Unbelievably short sighted.
06-19-2024, 06:50 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,477
IDk about their latest contract but on their previous contract BIL said it was brutal for commuters bidding reserve. I forget the exact details but they'd convert commuters (him) to SC while keeping local guys on LC. He called and *****ed "that's not per the contract." Crew scheduling - "ALPA agreed with how we're doing it." BIL - "DALPA's terrible. They're such a company union." He'd been ALPA at a different carrier and thought DALPA was way to cozy with DL mgt.
06-19-2024, 06:53 AM
#89
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,154
IDk about their latest contract but on their previous contract BIL said it was brutal for commuters bidding reserve. I forget the exact details but they'd convert commuters (him) to SC while keeping local guys on LC. He called and *****ed "that's not per the contract." Crew scheduling - "ALPA agreed with how we're doing it." BIL - "DALPA's terrible. They're such a company union." He'd been ALPA at a different carrier and thought DALPA was way to cozy with DL mgt.
I think the stall is down to just a few short straws now.
What year did you retire Sliceback? You're one of the original nAAtive Americans.
06-19-2024, 07:22 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,477
So are Delta and United pilots saying this exact thing as they continue to enjoy their far superior ALPA-negotiated contracts? Did the ALPA National Fat Cats prevent them from getting the top tier contracts?
Are APA pilots basking in their far inferior contract while touting how great it is that their union only represents AA pilots and as such are in a much better position?
Asking for a friend.
Are APA pilots basking in their far inferior contract while touting how great it is that their union only represents AA pilots and as such are in a much better position?
Asking for a friend.
APA contract comparison review -
AA leads - reserve rules except for 18 hr call out for LC, vacation value, furlough provisions, 321 pay (matches 757 pay while others 321 pay doesn't match 757 pay).
AA lags - deadheading, monthly sick hour accural, reassignment/premium pay, 2 CA's for long haul flights (12 hrs trigger vs 16 hr), life insurance (UA lags for FO's vs AA).
Scope - mixed bag. I'd have to ask a SME to explain the details
Retiree medical - AA lags? Need to ask SME to explain the details
Monthly hr caps? Delta seems like it might be slighly worse? Again I'd have to defer to a SME.
LTD - UA lags.
Does UA still have the airport standby provision? Beats me.
IDK how you get "far superior" and "far inferior" when the plusses and minuses are so close and a lot of stuff is the exact same.
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