Sign the alpa card - end apa dysfunction
08-27-2024, 05:08 AM
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 658
You all realize SWAPA got Southwest industry leading NB rates for captains and FO’s being paid 757 rates. They earn more than the legacies. Their independent union does heavy lifting.
what did APA deliver that is industry leading???
DALPA and UALPA delivered industry leading rates each time they passed an agreement.
why pay anything to APA if all they do is copy paste ALPA carriers?
what did APA deliver that is industry leading???
DALPA and UALPA delivered industry leading rates each time they passed an agreement.
why pay anything to APA if all they do is copy paste ALPA carriers?
08-27-2024, 05:34 AM
#232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 448
If I hear another TWA sob story again I am going to p***. When you hear it you realize it was their own pilots, not ALPA, who threw them under the bus. In addition if American didn't buy them the alternative was that they would have all been let go as TWA liquidated. They would have been on the streets fending for their own jobs under a horrible hiring environment.
Yeah, I know you got a bum deal on the whole situation. But that is not going to sway me from voting APA out. I’ve seen too much crap from them already to make my own decision. Actions have consequences and the actions APA has taken over the last few years needs to be answered for.
Yeah, I know you got a bum deal on the whole situation. But that is not going to sway me from voting APA out. I’ve seen too much crap from them already to make my own decision. Actions have consequences and the actions APA has taken over the last few years needs to be answered for.
08-27-2024, 06:15 AM
#233
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 390
You all realize SWAPA got Southwest industry leading NB rates for captains and FO’s being paid 757 rates. They earn more than the legacies. Their independent union does heavy lifting.
what did APA deliver that is industry leading???
DALPA and UALPA delivered industry leading rates each time they passed an agreement.
why pay anything to APA if all they do is copy paste ALPA carriers?
what did APA deliver that is industry leading???
DALPA and UALPA delivered industry leading rates each time they passed an agreement.
why pay anything to APA if all they do is copy paste ALPA carriers?
08-27-2024, 06:28 AM
#234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 658
you do realize SWA was bleeding pilots to other carriers? SWA had to offer something great in order to keep their pilots otherwise they’d be screwed. That is why they got nice rates. People don’t leave legacies the way they were at SW. other than the typical ones leaving between other legacies which AA received just as many as the ones that left.
but again, what did APA bring to the table that was industry leading?
08-27-2024, 07:24 AM
#235
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,335
Well, they illegally scraped the APA database to spam members. I was at two ALPA airlines before AA. One was great, the other sucked. It all depends on who you vote in. APA has a lot of issues, but ALPA won’t magically solve them.
08-27-2024, 07:35 AM
#236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by greatmovieistar
When you hear it you realize it was their own pilots, not ALPA, who threw them under the bus.
Originally Posted by montcalm
If you've spent 35 years at a legacy carrier and still "need" two more, that's not on ALPA—it's on you.
Lastly - if AAL were succesful in bringing ALPA on property, I would hope at a bare minium it would come with the stipulation of a dues reduction. There's no reason that cannot be negotiated.
08-27-2024, 08:14 AM
#237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 976
So right now if we basically get what United gets but it costs us 0.8% or so less than it doesn't seem terrible.
Do I like to see union leaders double dipping on premium while I'm barely scraping by? No. Do I think when Insler was running United his cronies were doing the exact same thing? Yes.
Union leaders are just like politicians. They line their own pockets by promising the moon to get elected then delivering just enough to get elected again. Nothing in ALPAs by-laws or national structure changes this basic fact of human nature.
I am fine with seeing the board running scared though and actually giving slightly more than lip service to listening to the pilot group.
08-27-2024, 08:24 AM
#238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 673
Absolutely. Most likely we'll end up with mostly the same people in leadership roles. The only thing that is certain is it will cost more money.
So right now if we basically get what United gets but it costs us 0.8% or so less than it doesn't seem terrible.
Do I like to see union leaders double dipping on premium while I'm barely scraping by? No. Do I think when Insler was running United his cronies were doing the exact same thing? Yes.
Union leaders are just like politicians. They line their own pockets by promising the moon to get elected then delivering just enough to get elected again. Nothing in ALPAs by-laws or national structure changes this basic fact of human nature.
I am fine with seeing the board running scared though and actually giving slightly more than lip service to listening to the pilot group.
So right now if we basically get what United gets but it costs us 0.8% or so less than it doesn't seem terrible.
Do I like to see union leaders double dipping on premium while I'm barely scraping by? No. Do I think when Insler was running United his cronies were doing the exact same thing? Yes.
Union leaders are just like politicians. They line their own pockets by promising the moon to get elected then delivering just enough to get elected again. Nothing in ALPAs by-laws or national structure changes this basic fact of human nature.
I am fine with seeing the board running scared though and actually giving slightly more than lip service to listening to the pilot group.
08-27-2024, 08:28 AM
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320
Posts: 726
Absolutely. Most likely we'll end up with mostly the same people in leadership roles. The only thing that is certain is it will cost more money.
So right now if we basically get what United gets but it costs us 0.8% or so less than it doesn't seem terrible.
Do I like to see union leaders double dipping on premium while I'm barely scraping by? No. Do I think when Insler was running United his cronies were doing the exact same thing? Yes.
Union leaders are just like politicians. They line their own pockets by promising the moon to get elected then delivering just enough to get elected again. Nothing in ALPAs by-laws or national structure changes this basic fact of human nature.
I am fine with seeing the board running scared though and actually giving slightly more than lip service to listening to the pilot group.
So right now if we basically get what United gets but it costs us 0.8% or so less than it doesn't seem terrible.
Do I like to see union leaders double dipping on premium while I'm barely scraping by? No. Do I think when Insler was running United his cronies were doing the exact same thing? Yes.
Union leaders are just like politicians. They line their own pockets by promising the moon to get elected then delivering just enough to get elected again. Nothing in ALPAs by-laws or national structure changes this basic fact of human nature.
I am fine with seeing the board running scared though and actually giving slightly more than lip service to listening to the pilot group.
08-27-2024, 08:44 AM
#240
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,812
Ahh, there it is. So you are asking a pilot group to uproot an organization that directly impacts: medical, disability, pay, grievances, and a myriad of other areas and you can’t offer basic “this is why one is better than the other”? Oh, I forgot to include an almost doubling of union dues.
With the reduced footprint of The Line, why isn’t this the appropriate place to stake your claim?
With the reduced footprint of The Line, why isn’t this the appropriate place to stake your claim?
FYI, ALPA dues are currently 1.85%, and we got a National dues refund of last year's dues bringing our effective rate down to ~1.5%. Separately, we got a local refund on 3 of the last 4 years too. Full disclosure, that doens't always happen but... I would fully expect that any merger between APA and ALPA would come contingent on a reduction on dues. Adding 17,000 pilots significanly increases the pool of paying pilots.
IMO, dues should not be the reason y'all decide your direction. Good Luck.
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