DCA A320 vs 737
11-19-2023, 08:02 AM
#51
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,482
1. No one hand flies at altitude. The aircraft have different pitch sensitivity at higher altitude/mach.
2. Push/pull on the stick. This is inapproproiate in almost every airplane. Aerobatics? Sure, with an intended purpose. Doesn't anyone remember their slow speed/high AOA training? The softest hands wins. The brick hands/heavy hands suck. Be better, do better. The endless 'push/pull' input landings videos with the amateurs cheering is part of the problem. Even guys landing on the boat, with tight landing parameters, don't abuse the stick like so many of the online "landing like a boss!" (amateur observers) videos.
3. pitch change from 3.5 degrees to 11 degrees at FL380. 11 degrees!?!!?? Shades of Air France 447 - wtf are they thinking?
4. 1.6G pull? Every, but especially at high altitude? Read the last statement in #3....
5. Basic airmanship failure? Think that a hard pull and obviously increased AOA ISN'T the cause of the stall warning bar moving?!
6. Turning the 2 ADR's off. That's funny that people throw bricks at Boeing but convientantly ignore the major risk Airbus had that was part of this incident. The Boeing with runaway trim was safer on rotation/lift off than the Airbus' ADR fault risk (google Qantas QF72) which the pilots mistakenly thought they had.
The BFU could have summarized their report better in the opening paragraph - Non consequential overspeed followed by complete hand fisted flying and buffonery leads to high altitude upset....for far too long.
https://avherald.com/h?article=4c0504fb
11-24-2023, 07:06 PM
#52
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 290
Dont know how it is for the Airbus but on the 737 I routinely hand fly the DCA 19 River Visual, and many times in raw data too. It's still a boat load of fun to fly it the way we used to fly it on the 727 and MD80.
That only works if we're cleared for the River visual - if we're cleared for the RNP then yes the AP has to stay on.
That only works if we're cleared for the River visual - if we're cleared for the RNP then yes the AP has to stay on.
We were hand-flying the River Visual in the Bus 20 years ago.
God, I am old.
11-25-2023, 12:08 PM
#56
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11-25-2023, 12:12 PM
#57
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Posts: 5,482
11-29-2023, 06:04 AM
#58
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Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 147
The -200,-300 and -400, not the NG or MAX.
The biggest problem I see is not fully understanding the A320 automation. That said, quite often the answer it "Autopilot off, flight directors off" and/or "Autothrust off." But I tell guys that need to understand the automation when they get in the airplane. And that automation can suck you in and have you just watching and saying "Why is it doing that" and not doing anything about it. But I've seem that in a bunch of A/C.
The biggest problem I see is not fully understanding the A320 automation. That said, quite often the answer it "Autopilot off, flight directors off" and/or "Autothrust off." But I tell guys that need to understand the automation when they get in the airplane. And that automation can suck you in and have you just watching and saying "Why is it doing that" and not doing anything about it. But I've seem that in a bunch of A/C.
The culture of dumping all the magic on the 737 fleet vs "keep it managed" mantra on the Airbus fleet is better, but Airbus training does not emphasize that well enough along with the culture of "managed always" on the Airbus fleet on the line.
Column 1 gets even seasoned Airbus pilots in trouble.
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