TankerDriver

I totally agree. However, how many hourly paying jobs do you know of do you spend 10-12+ hrs on duty and only get paid 5-6 out of that duty period? Granted, our hourly rates are pretty generous, but there should be a little more incentive for working past 10 hours here. Not all of us can get the one leg to LAS, SAN or LAX and one leg back.

highfarfast

Really though, comparisons to military duty and deployments is a bit silly. We should only be comparing our pay and working conditions to our peers which are the other legacies.

TankerDriver

Amen. There's a reason why I left the military...

Hueypilot

Before I went into the military full time, I was a geologist. I routinely worked 50-60 hours a week, on salary. One weekend (my birthday weekend), I was called in to work in the middle of my birthday steak dinner on a Friday night. I didn’t get home until Sunday night…worked the whole time and slept on a table. Called my boss Sunday night to ask if I could take Monday off…”well, you’re supposed to be here Monday at 8am.” Happy birthday to me.

Granted, that wasn’t an hourly job. But it’s pretty typical of many other professional careers. We get paid per flight hour. It’s not an apples to apples comparison with other hourly workers. No way you’re gonna get paid that rate for duty time…

On the flip side I routinely bid trips with 30 hour layovers where I get paid to sit in a hotel. Many of my non-pilot friends are amazed at how our career pays us…and in a good way. Not saying we shouldn’t keep working to get better work rules but sometimes the rhetoric on here and other places draws some significant eye-rolls.

This is a pretty damn good job. I could be doing what my wife does…HR remote work…working 50+ hours a week and having to log into her computer at 8pm to put out fires…while making a third of my pay.

BL: I think during contract negotiation season, people tend to lose sight of the big picture. I try not to let my blood pressure rise or stress out over what’s basically one of the best jobs out there.

highfarfast

I’ve got no problem with what you’re saying. I agree. I think most, if not all, of us agree or we wouldn’t be doing what we do. And this would be great in a thread where someone is talking about how much one hates being a pilot or hates the lifestyle or whatever and is thinking about leaving the profession. But here, in a thread about contract terms and negotiations, it’s not a relevant comparison.

The real comparison is AA work/life/pay, Delta work/life/pay, and United work/life/pay.

I will say, if we vote no and this moves toward mediation or worse, the sentiments you mention will work agains us. I’m telling yah, the general public thinks we have it too good already and the further we move beyond this vote the more politicians views will factor in and they are voted in by the general public.

hockeypilot44

If every union was as weak as APA, the industry would never get raises. We could all call ourselves industry leading though!

Varks

The long duty day rig for over 10 hr days is in the LOA. It hasn’t been agreed to but was/is on the table. The issue is what will the optimizer spit out if this rig is implemented? Just like minimum calendar day, there will be consequences. The concern is it will destroy commutable trips. Shorter days could cause longer trips. That is the concern. They are not going to build schedules with many 10+ hr days. The optimizer will drive down that number. Careful what you wish for.

Varks

We as a group do not have the fortitude to do what is necessary to get the best contract. We have zero unity. It is every pilot in it for themselves. For instance one of the loudest no vote proponents has been exposed for who they really are. Come to find out they have been picking up tons of overtime. Not what should be done during section six. They also do voluntary assignment work for the company. The Union came right out and said don’t do it. They are anyway. This person is getting ready for a management job. I can’t support a no vote when people like this are can’t be counted on. The social media savvy, vocal no voter, chest thumping, entitled children have screwed this up. If you can’t endure a little short term pain by staying out of OT, and not doing company volunteer work then I can’t count on you to do what is necessary to get the contract we deserve. Therefore it’s a yes for me.

sumwherelse

You knew this was how it worked when you signed up. Now it needs to be changed because you don’t like it?

sumwherelse

Have you volunteered? Or do you just sit on the sidelines slinging insults at those who do?