AIP 2.0
08-14-2023, 06:52 PM
#401
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
Mad props to the DAL ALPA negotiating committee! No doubt everyone in the commercial aviation sector owes them a debt of gratitude. My point about the CEO was not intended to take away anything from them, I only mentioned it to bring up that based on my understanding it put some extra pressure on DAL to meet the union positions at the very end.
The bigger point is, with few exceptions, in any industry you typically can expect the richest and most successful company to “set the standard” that others should follow for employee compensation, etc. That is DAL when it comes to U.S. legacy airlines. They didn’t let us down, and set the standard way higher than what UAL (Tumi) and AAL (TA1) were prepared to give.
Who you’re playing poker against and their bankroll determines how much you can ultimately win, no?
Too many assume DAL/UAL/AAL are essentially the same company and are playing with the same deck of cards. They’re not.
Who you’re playing poker against and their bankroll determines how much you can ultimately win, no?
Too many assume DAL/UAL/AAL are essentially the same company and are playing with the same deck of cards. They’re not.
08-14-2023, 09:04 PM
#402
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
Fair enough.
I might take issue with the thought process here, though. If that were true, would Isom have come out so quickly on video in that sweater saying "We are prepared to match DL", and then do the same thing a second time, after an AIP was inked no less, to again "match" UA's TA (not just pay rates)? I'm not AA, so it's a genuine question. But from the outside, it sure seemed like AA Management was all too willing to quickly dig deeper into their pockets. Which is indicative that there was more value to be gained if only APA fought for it. Again, genuine question, where is that wrong?
I might take issue with the thought process here, though. If that were true, would Isom have come out so quickly on video in that sweater saying "We are prepared to match DL", and then do the same thing a second time, after an AIP was inked no less, to again "match" UA's TA (not just pay rates)? I'm not AA, so it's a genuine question. But from the outside, it sure seemed like AA Management was all too willing to quickly dig deeper into their pockets. Which is indicative that there was more value to be gained if only APA fought for it. Again, genuine question, where is that wrong?
Now, what if I NEEDED to buy that house because it was literally my only option in town and our whole way of life would be threatened if we didn’t? Well then I guess I would just do it despite the risks, and pray for the best. Absent being forced to, however, I would never voluntarily put myself in that position.
This is AAL with 30+ billion in debt, legacy pensions, a number of marginally unprofitable hubs and a highly unionized workforce of 130k employees coming up in 2023 to meet DAL pilot payrates. Its probably not a good business decision, but it’s been long established that all 3 legacies need to pay the same pilot rates to stay competitive for a number of reasons.
Let’s hope the good times for the airline industry keep rolling!
08-14-2023, 09:18 PM
#403
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,223
Look, I CAN afford a million dollar house, with its $8,000 monthly mortgage. Meaning, I could make the payments if I absolutely had to by cutting expenses in a bunch of other areas and scaling back on things we enjoy. Would that be a wise business decision? Heck no! If things went south for any reason or my wife or I get laid off, it would put us in a terrible position.
Now, what if I NEEDED to buy that house because it was literally my only option in town and our whole way of life would be threatened if we didn’t? Well then I guess I would just do it despite the risks, and pray for the best. Absent being forced to, however, I would never voluntarily put myself in that position.
This is AAL with 30+ billion in debt, legacy pensions, a number of marginally unprofitable hubs and a highly unionized workforce of 130k employees coming up in 2023 to meet DAL pilot payrates. Its probably not a good business decision, but it’s been long established that all 3 legacies need to pay the same pilot rates to stay competitive for a number of reasons.
Let’s hope the good times for the airline industry keep rolling!
Now, what if I NEEDED to buy that house because it was literally my only option in town and our whole way of life would be threatened if we didn’t? Well then I guess I would just do it despite the risks, and pray for the best. Absent being forced to, however, I would never voluntarily put myself in that position.
This is AAL with 30+ billion in debt, legacy pensions, a number of marginally unprofitable hubs and a highly unionized workforce of 130k employees coming up in 2023 to meet DAL pilot payrates. Its probably not a good business decision, but it’s been long established that all 3 legacies need to pay the same pilot rates to stay competitive for a number of reasons.
Let’s hope the good times for the airline industry keep rolling!
08-14-2023, 11:28 PM
#405
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 99
Isn’t delta also in $30 billion plus debt?
Look, I CAN afford a million dollar house, with its $8,000 monthly mortgage. Meaning, I could make the payments if I absolutely had to by cutting expenses in a bunch of other areas and scaling back on things we enjoy. Would that be a wise business decision? Heck no! If things went south for any reason or my wife or I get laid off, it would put us in a terrible position.
Now, what if I NEEDED to buy that house because it was literally my only option in town and our whole way of life would be threatened if we didn’t? Well then I guess I would just do it despite the risks, and pray for the best. Absent being forced to, however, I would never voluntarily put myself in that position.
This is AAL with 30+ billion in debt, legacy pensions, a number of marginally unprofitable hubs and a highly unionized workforce of 130k employees coming up in 2023 to meet DAL pilot payrates. Its probably not a good business decision, but it’s been long established that all 3 legacies need to pay the same pilot rates to stay competitive for a number of reasons.
Let’s hope the good times for the airline industry keep rolling!
Now, what if I NEEDED to buy that house because it was literally my only option in town and our whole way of life would be threatened if we didn’t? Well then I guess I would just do it despite the risks, and pray for the best. Absent being forced to, however, I would never voluntarily put myself in that position.
This is AAL with 30+ billion in debt, legacy pensions, a number of marginally unprofitable hubs and a highly unionized workforce of 130k employees coming up in 2023 to meet DAL pilot payrates. Its probably not a good business decision, but it’s been long established that all 3 legacies need to pay the same pilot rates to stay competitive for a number of reasons.
Let’s hope the good times for the airline industry keep rolling!
08-15-2023, 03:11 AM
#406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,372
08-15-2023, 04:53 AM
#407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 900
The COVID furlough was a product of APA not wanting pay concessions during so-called contract negotiations that should have started in 2019, but didn't and a political publicity stunt by the company who knew they'd get COVID-bucks from Uncle Sam, which was more than enough to cover payroll and magically disappeared into our financial books like it never happened.
08-15-2023, 04:59 AM
#408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
Ha. I’m not predicting anything. That’s a fools errand in this business!
Also, todays financial situations of all these companies is likely not indicative of where things will stand in 10 years. AAL has some good things going for it looking into the future if current trends continue.
Also, todays financial situations of all these companies is likely not indicative of where things will stand in 10 years. AAL has some good things going for it looking into the future if current trends continue.
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