AIP 2.0
08-09-2023, 05:14 AM
#291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
This is the mentality with a lot of pilots at AA. Once you realize this you start to understand how a contract got so bad over the past couple decades. “We are getting our money. What are you complaining about you spoiled brat! You’re just wHiNiNg”
These are the same clowns who also try to tell you that money IS QOL. Lol
The negotiating committee is a joke and got completely owned by AA. Ohh im sure as individuals they are great people to go out for a beer with or whatever, but they got totally outmatched. There was not one single gain that AA wasn’t already willing to give up going in. As far as doing what they tasked, how many items were completed in that email that was fired off by the union after United’s latest AIP? How many industry standard items were accomplished? Yeah, you don’t have to answer that we already know the answer.
It is so obvious APA manipulated the survey results to make it look like we got our main goals accomplished. But go out on the line and what is by far the number one complaint? Schedule flexibility and at AA you have none. RO was our top priority? Really? Something that averages happening to a pilot at AA at twice a year? GTFO company stooge.
These are the same clowns who also try to tell you that money IS QOL. Lol
The negotiating committee is a joke and got completely owned by AA. Ohh im sure as individuals they are great people to go out for a beer with or whatever, but they got totally outmatched. There was not one single gain that AA wasn’t already willing to give up going in. As far as doing what they tasked, how many items were completed in that email that was fired off by the union after United’s latest AIP? How many industry standard items were accomplished? Yeah, you don’t have to answer that we already know the answer.
It is so obvious APA manipulated the survey results to make it look like we got our main goals accomplished. But go out on the line and what is by far the number one complaint? Schedule flexibility and at AA you have none. RO was our top priority? Really? Something that averages happening to a pilot at AA at twice a year? GTFO company stooge.
AA is not perfect, that’s for sure. Surely plenty of other outfits are hiring which in your view could give you the “better QOL” you want day 1? Again, since you don’t care about the money. This is not a “if you don’t like it, leave” post. Serious question. Why don’t you let everyone in on your thought processes to maybe provide some value to people and potential NHs reading this forum so they can decide for themselves.
08-09-2023, 05:17 AM
#292
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,951
08-09-2023, 06:53 AM
#293
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,739
Since you don’t care about money, why are you still here, at a company you hate, where you have disdain for the other pilots, represented by a union you believe illegally manipulates poll data? You sound miserable.
AA is not perfect, that’s for sure. Surely plenty of other outfits are hiring which in your view could give you the “better QOL” you want day 1? Again, since you don’t care about the money. This is not a “if you don’t like it, leave” post. Serious question. Why don’t you let everyone in on your thought processes to maybe provide some value to people and potential NHs reading this forum so they can decide for themselves.
AA is not perfect, that’s for sure. Surely plenty of other outfits are hiring which in your view could give you the “better QOL” you want day 1? Again, since you don’t care about the money. This is not a “if you don’t like it, leave” post. Serious question. Why don’t you let everyone in on your thought processes to maybe provide some value to people and potential NHs reading this forum so they can decide for themselves.
08-09-2023, 06:58 AM
#294
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
Since you don’t care about money, why are you still here, at a company you hate, where you have disdain for the other pilots, represented by a union you believe illegally manipulates poll data? You sound miserable.
AA is not perfect, that’s for sure. Surely plenty of other outfits are hiring which in your view could give you the “better QOL” you want day 1? Again, since you don’t care about the money. This is not a “if you don’t like it, leave” post. Serious question. Why don’t you let everyone in on your thought processes to maybe provide some value to people and potential NHs reading this forum so they can decide for themselves.
AA is not perfect, that’s for sure. Surely plenty of other outfits are hiring which in your view could give you the “better QOL” you want day 1? Again, since you don’t care about the money. This is not a “if you don’t like it, leave” post. Serious question. Why don’t you let everyone in on your thought processes to maybe provide some value to people and potential NHs reading this forum so they can decide for themselves.
08-09-2023, 07:12 AM
#295
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 378
08-09-2023, 08:18 AM
#296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
Nice non-answer. Not worth engaging with you as many others have said. From my seat - APA HAS done their job and produced a good contract (albeit with lots of help from ALPA) considering what they have to work with...arguably the most challenging hand to play in the industry. Already talked about the RSV system critiques and the choice now before us (current book, not current process vs. new TA). Talked about reducing the number of reserves and creating more lines (thats what we wanted, right?) - which combined with IDL trip construction *should* make trades easier and more plentiful. Talked about negotiating for the best pairing distribution of the big 3. Negotiating for industry leading LTD. RO rules that will either strongly discourage the company from going down that road, or pay the pilots handsomely if they do. We already have IDL commuter policy and IMAX, if thats your thing. Most friendly military policy in the business. Would I like TTS changes and increased flexibility like everyone else? Better DHD language? Of course. But don't think thats coming if we vote this down....DAL and UAL have no contractual "trading" guarantees. Do your research and talk to your friends at those airlines. They complain about not being able to trade/drop too. Would going back to the table, or going to a mediator help us get that, when it wasn't part of the original union ask and the other airlines don't even have it? Use your head. AAL is definitely hard up on manning issues, even more so than the rest of the industry...but then again, thats why many of us came here over the past decade - retirements and seniority gain, right? There's always a trade off. To expect an outcome that non-industry standard open time limits or trading language "guarantees" will somehow be negotiated for or given by a company that views manning issues as their #1 problem due to the largest flying schedule, massive mandatory retirements and delayed post COVID hiring, is a pipe-dream. Meanwhile you're giving up thousands and thousands of dollars and solid gains in many other areas that inarguably improve on the current contract. Go ahead and keep spewing hate and discontent while simultaneously undermining your arguments by staying here, without telling anyone why you stay. Cheers and see you out there.
Last edited by Easyflier301; 08-09-2023 at 08:33 AM.
08-09-2023, 08:38 AM
#297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,739
Nice non-answer. Not worth engaging with you as many others have said. From my seat - APA HAS done their job and produced a good contract (albeit with lots of help from ALPA) considering what they have to work with...arguably the most challenging hand to play in the industry. Already talked about the RSV system critiques and the choice now before us (current book, not current process vs. new TA). Talked about reducing the number of reserves and creating more lines (thats what we wanted, right?) - which combined with IDL trip construction *should* make trades easier and more plentiful. Talked about negotiating for the best pairing distribution of the big 3. Negotiating for industry leading LTD. RO rules that will either strongly discourage the company from going down that road, or pay the pilots handsomely if they do. We already have IDL commuter policy and IMAX, if thats your thing. Most friendly military policy in the business. Would I like TTS changes and increased flexibility like everyone else? Better DHD language? Of course. But don't think thats coming if we vote this down....DAL and UAL have no contractual "trading" guarantees. Do your research and talk to your friends at those airlines. They complain about not being able to trade/drop too. Would going back to the table, or going to a mediator help us get that, when it wasn't part of the original union ask and the other airlines don't even have it? Use your head. AAL is definitely hard up on manning issues, even more so than the rest of the industry...but then again, thats why many of us came here over the past decade - retirements and seniority gain, right? There's always a trade off. To expect an outcome that non-industry standard open time limits or trading language "guarantees" will somehow be negotiated for or given by a company that views manning issues as their #1 problem due to the largest flying schedule, massive mandatory retirements and delayed post COVID hiring, is a pipe-dream. Meanwhile you're giving up thousands and thousands of dollars and solid gains in many other areas that inarguably improve on the current contract. Go ahead and keep spewing hate and discontent while simultaneously undermining your arguments by staying here, without telling anyone why you stay. Cheers and see you out there.
08-09-2023, 10:24 AM
#298
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
08-10-2023, 05:43 AM
#299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,083
Nice non-answer. Not worth engaging with you as many others have said. From my seat - APA HAS done their job and produced a good contract (albeit with lots of help from ALPA) considering what they have to work with...arguably the most challenging hand to play in the industry. Already talked about the RSV system critiques and the choice now before us (current book, not current process vs. new TA). Talked about reducing the number of reserves and creating more lines (thats what we wanted, right?) - which combined with IDL trip construction *should* make trades easier and more plentiful. Talked about negotiating for the best pairing distribution of the big 3. Negotiating for industry leading LTD. RO rules that will either strongly discourage the company from going down that road, or pay the pilots handsomely if they do. We already have IDL commuter policy and IMAX, if thats your thing. Most friendly military policy in the business. Would I like TTS changes and increased flexibility like everyone else? Better DHD language? Of course. But don't think thats coming if we vote this down....DAL and UAL have no contractual "trading" guarantees. Do your research and talk to your friends at those airlines. They complain about not being able to trade/drop too. Would going back to the table, or going to a mediator help us get that, when it wasn't part of the original union ask and the other airlines don't even have it? Use your head. AAL is definitely hard up on manning issues, even more so than the rest of the industry...but then again, thats why many of us came here over the past decade - retirements and seniority gain, right? There's always a trade off. To expect an outcome that non-industry standard open time limits or trading language "guarantees" will somehow be negotiated for or given by a company that views manning issues as their #1 problem due to the largest flying schedule, massive mandatory retirements and delayed post COVID hiring, is a pipe-dream. Meanwhile you're giving up thousands and thousands of dollars and solid gains in many other areas that inarguably improve on the current contract. Go ahead and keep spewing hate and discontent while simultaneously undermining your arguments by staying here, without telling anyone why you stay. Cheers and see you out there.
Everything else: The same as it's always been or worse.
Edit: The sick bank to bridge LTD is actually a really nice gain. I forgot it.
08-10-2023, 08:58 AM
#300
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Nice non-answer. Not worth engaging with you as many others have said. From my seat - APA HAS done their job and produced a good contract (albeit with lots of help from ALPA) considering what they have to work with...arguably the most challenging hand to play in the industry. Already talked about the RSV system critiques and the choice now before us (current book, not current process vs. new TA). Talked about reducing the number of reserves and creating more lines (thats what we wanted, right?) - which combined with IDL trip construction *should* make trades easier and more plentiful. Talked about negotiating for the best pairing distribution of the big 3. Negotiating for industry leading LTD. RO rules that will either strongly discourage the company from going down that road, or pay the pilots handsomely if they do. We already have IDL commuter policy and IMAX, if thats your thing. Most friendly military policy in the business. Would I like TTS changes and increased flexibility like everyone else? Better DHD language? Of course. But don't think thats coming if we vote this down....DAL and UAL have no contractual "trading" guarantees. Do your research and talk to your friends at those airlines. They complain about not being able to trade/drop too. Would going back to the table, or going to a mediator help us get that, when it wasn't part of the original union ask and the other airlines don't even have it? Use your head. AAL is definitely hard up on manning issues, even more so than the rest of the industry...but then again, thats why many of us came here over the past decade - retirements and seniority gain, right? There's always a trade off. To expect an outcome that non-industry standard open time limits or trading language "guarantees" will somehow be negotiated for or given by a company that views manning issues as their #1 problem due to the largest flying schedule, massive mandatory retirements and delayed post COVID hiring, is a pipe-dream. Meanwhile you're giving up thousands and thousands of dollars and solid gains in many other areas that inarguably improve on the current contract. Go ahead and keep spewing hate and discontent while simultaneously undermining your arguments by staying here, without telling anyone why you stay. Cheers and see you out there.
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