AIP 2.0
08-08-2023, 03:04 PM
#272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
Why isn't it implemented?
I ask because if the company decides it's better for them to implement something they do. Either that or it is simply beyond IT's capability. RAS has not been implemented despite being on the books for years.
Many(myself included) have already worked under the system negotiated, or very similar, and it's terrible. AA currently has the best reserve work rules of the 3.
I ask because if the company decides it's better for them to implement something they do. Either that or it is simply beyond IT's capability. RAS has not been implemented despite being on the books for years.
Many(myself included) have already worked under the system negotiated, or very similar, and it's terrible. AA currently has the best reserve work rules of the 3.
Yeah, thats the point. They can implement that "terrible" system anytime they want. Especially if, lets say, a pilot group votes down a contract and the company then buckles up and says "well, we were going to implement a new system anyway, now that the contract is voted down, lets gain some efficiency in the meantime by putting in the RPV/RAS/buckets changes that we can with the current book." Would you put that past the company?
Y'all are willfully ignoring that. Per the APA contract comparison sheet between DAL/UAL for RSV, it says "Previously negotiated provisions were progressing towards implementation, including Reserve Priority Value (RPV) and Recent Work Factor (RWF)."
Back to my point, comparing "current process" to the proposed TA is not very realistic. We need to look at what is coming and then try to get better from that. I would argue the TA is much improved over current book.
08-08-2023, 03:20 PM
#273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
If you like shorter trips (as I do), the pairing distribution in this TA (which is guaranteed by domicile/seat/equipment) beats DAL/UAL by any measurable metric. Yes, we've all heard the argument that its not much better than what we have now, yada yada....but don't say its not industry leading against the other legacies, because it is. Sure, UAL has a higher percentage of 1 days guaranteed, but their percentages are spread out across their whole system. They could award all of those 1 days to one domicile or drastically weight them in any direction they want.
08-08-2023, 03:45 PM
#274
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,665
Sorry just passing through but what’s this nonsense about medical standards where AA can force you to get a procedure in order to fly?
https://www.truthforhealth.org/2023/08/airline-pilot-contract-threatens-pilot-health-and-public-safety/
https://www.truthforhealth.org/2023/08/airline-pilot-contract-threatens-pilot-health-and-public-safety/
08-08-2023, 03:47 PM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,739
Yes but the difference is we are voting on a contract within parity of United and delta. Some good and some bad in all three with pay consistent across the contracts. Our TA last fall and United’s last TA were similar to the turd you just voted down. Good on you.
The no voters we have today will never vote yes. They will say otherwise but it’s not truth.
The no voters we have today will never vote yes. They will say otherwise but it’s not truth.
08-08-2023, 03:58 PM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 130
Sorry just passing through but what’s this nonsense about medical standards where AA can force you to get a procedure in order to fly?
https://www.truthforhealth.org/2023/08/airline-pilot-contract-threatens-pilot-health-and-public-safety/
https://www.truthforhealth.org/2023/08/airline-pilot-contract-threatens-pilot-health-and-public-safety/
But from what I gather from the outrage from that clause( which pilots wanted and now different pilots are complaining about now) is the fact that if a foreign country requires a person to have vaccination for let’s say super duper COVID, and the pilot elects to not get that vaccination they will not be allowed to fly that trip and go unpaid. If they do get the vaccination they have to submit it to the company.
I don’t see the big deal over it. A foreign country has the right to say who comes into their country. And if they require a vaccination the company is going to want to know you have it.
08-08-2023, 04:09 PM
#277
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
One thing for sure is there are way too many uninformed voters, probably on each side, but they are definitely louder on the forever NO side. Someone posted one of the “contract comparison” pages from the APA contract site on one of the FB pages (there are only a few of them), and people were all thanking him for posting and talking about how they “hadn’t seen that before.” Embarrassing. Guess the online forum echo chambers are the best place to get your information.
08-08-2023, 04:12 PM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,315
Yeah, thats the point. They can implement that "terrible" system anytime they want. Especially if, lets say, a pilot group votes down a contract and the company then buckles up and says "well, we were going to implement a new system anyway, now that the contract is voted down, lets gain some efficiency in the meantime by putting in the RPV/RAS/buckets changes that we can with the current book." Would you put that past the company?
Y'all are willfully ignoring that. Per the APA contract comparison sheet between DAL/UAL for RSV, it says "Previously negotiated provisions were progressing towards implementation, including Reserve Priority Value (RPV) and Recent Work Factor (RWF)."
Back to my point, comparing "current process" to the proposed TA is not very realistic. We need to look at what is coming and then try to get better from that. I would argue the TA is much improved over current book.
Y'all are willfully ignoring that. Per the APA contract comparison sheet between DAL/UAL for RSV, it says "Previously negotiated provisions were progressing towards implementation, including Reserve Priority Value (RPV) and Recent Work Factor (RWF)."
Back to my point, comparing "current process" to the proposed TA is not very realistic. We need to look at what is coming and then try to get better from that. I would argue the TA is much improved over current book.
My main issue with the TA2.0 reserve system is that it is two different systems. So during DOTC you are in the queue based on your bucket and seniority, then at 1500 your place in the queue shifts completely to being based on how many days you’ve worked and seniority, then rapt 1000 the next day it shifts again. Why? Why TF would they agree to this? I’d take the current Unimplemented JCBA system over this in a heart beat. This makes zero sense.
08-08-2023, 04:23 PM
#279
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,665
Quickly read through it, but of course it doesn’t actually cite the language.
But from what I gather from the outrage from that clause( which pilots wanted and now different pilots are complaining about now) is the fact that if a foreign country requires a person to have vaccination for let’s say super duper COVID, and the pilot elects to not get that vaccination they will not be allowed to fly that trip and go unpaid. If they do get the vaccination they have to submit it to the company.
I don’t see the big deal over it. A foreign country has the right to say who comes into their country. And if they require a vaccination the company is going to want to know you have it.
But from what I gather from the outrage from that clause( which pilots wanted and now different pilots are complaining about now) is the fact that if a foreign country requires a person to have vaccination for let’s say super duper COVID, and the pilot elects to not get that vaccination they will not be allowed to fly that trip and go unpaid. If they do get the vaccination they have to submit it to the company.
I don’t see the big deal over it. A foreign country has the right to say who comes into their country. And if they require a vaccination the company is going to want to know you have it.
08-08-2023, 04:41 PM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,083
Yeah, thats the point. They can implement that "terrible" system anytime they want. Especially if, lets say, a pilot group votes down a contract and the company then buckles up and says "well, we were going to implement a new system anyway, now that the contract is voted down, lets gain some efficiency in the meantime by putting in the RPV/RAS/buckets changes that we can with the current book." Would you put that past the company?
Y'all are willfully ignoring that. Per the APA contract comparison sheet between DAL/UAL for RSV, it says "Previously negotiated provisions were progressing towards implementation, including Reserve Priority Value (RPV) and Recent Work Factor (RWF)."
Back to my point, comparing "current process" to the proposed TA is not very realistic. We need to look at what is coming and then try to get better from that. I would argue the TA is much improved over current book.
Y'all are willfully ignoring that. Per the APA contract comparison sheet between DAL/UAL for RSV, it says "Previously negotiated provisions were progressing towards implementation, including Reserve Priority Value (RPV) and Recent Work Factor (RWF)."
Back to my point, comparing "current process" to the proposed TA is not very realistic. We need to look at what is coming and then try to get better from that. I would argue the TA is much improved over current book.
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