AIP 2.0
08-04-2023, 03:23 AM
#213
Bent over by buybacks
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 777
Quite the contrary. Just because you play for the Kansas City Royals and not the New York Yankees does not mean you can’t have a great career and make tons of money. The key to happiness will be just recognizing who you play for and making the most of it. Seems like based on new hire classes being completely full, most people understand that.
And by the way, there are a lot of downsides to playing for the Yankees (industry leaders - let’s say DAL at this point) as well. Make your decision, accept reality, and be happy.
And by the way, there are a lot of downsides to playing for the Yankees (industry leaders - let’s say DAL at this point) as well. Make your decision, accept reality, and be happy.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
08-04-2023, 06:16 AM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 502
That’s some high-level rationalization right there.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
Delta is the closest thing we have to the Yankees right now, but that will likely change over time. I can't recommend that anyone go to Delta over American or United at this point in the hiring cycle. No thanks to being bottom 50% for the next 20 years.
08-04-2023, 06:32 AM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 390
That’s some high-level rationalization right there.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
08-04-2023, 06:33 AM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
The APA's responsibility is to AA pilots only, not to anyone else. I seriously doubt you guys had AA pilots in mind when you were negotiating last year, so let's not kid ourselves. Your complaints about us not triggering a two percent raise on top of rates that will yield all of us $300-400k a year falls largely on deaf ears. All three are going to end up with rates within one percent of each other.
Delta is the closest thing we have to the Yankees right now, but that will likely change over time. I can't recommend that anyone go to Delta over American or United at this point in the hiring cycle. No thanks to being bottom 50% for the next 20 years.
Delta is the closest thing we have to the Yankees right now, but that will likely change over time. I can't recommend that anyone go to Delta over American or United at this point in the hiring cycle. No thanks to being bottom 50% for the next 20 years.
To me, APA is the mooch that shows up to a party and doesn’t actually contribute anything. DALPA did the negotiating for APA. They are more responsible for the American pilots’ agreement than APA.
Things definitely can change overnight in this industry. Look at Southwest. It has become the bottom dweller of the industry behind Delta, United, American, Jetblue, Spirit, and Alaska.
08-04-2023, 09:09 AM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 321
APA doesn’t operate in a vacuum. The Delta snap-up was a gift to the industry. Not only did Delta lead the way by a ton, they set American and United up to raise the industry pay even higher. United ALPA took advantage of it which is going to raise your pay at APA by 2 percent. I was hoping United would top Delta by 5 percent because of their covid agreement, but at least they took advantage of the snap-up.
To me, APA is the mooch that shows up to a party and doesn’t actually contribute anything. DALPA did the negotiating for APA. They are more responsible for the American pilots’ agreement than APA.
Things definitely can change overnight in this industry. Look at Southwest. It has become the bottom dweller of the industry behind Delta, United, American, Jetblue, Spirit, and Alaska.
To me, APA is the mooch that shows up to a party and doesn’t actually contribute anything. DALPA did the negotiating for APA. They are more responsible for the American pilots’ agreement than APA.
Things definitely can change overnight in this industry. Look at Southwest. It has become the bottom dweller of the industry behind Delta, United, American, Jetblue, Spirit, and Alaska.
ALPA is far from perfect, but it has shown to be able to pivot when the membership says that it needs to. DAL & UAL are good examples of that, and they came back stronger because of it. APA was set up by the revolutionaries, and as history shows, the first thing they do is to put a one way check valve so the counter revolution can't happen. Not then, not now, and you saw that play out.
But, that's ok and I get to spend my 4 figure dues refund on some bling for my Miata.
08-04-2023, 10:38 AM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,315
I suspect that ALPA is done with APA. This last time was the second in the last 5 years or so where APA leadership played like they were interested, then as soon as they copied off the exam paper, bailed out. You even had one guy on this thread say exactly that. Fool me once...
ALPA is far from perfect, but it has shown to be able to pivot when the membership says that it needs to. DAL & UAL are good examples of that, and they came back stronger because of it. APA was set up by the revolutionaries, and as history shows, the first thing they do is to put a one way check valve so the counter revolution can't happen. Not then, not now, and you saw that play out.
But, that's ok and I get to spend my 4 figure dues refund on some bling for my Miata.
ALPA is far from perfect, but it has shown to be able to pivot when the membership says that it needs to. DAL & UAL are good examples of that, and they came back stronger because of it. APA was set up by the revolutionaries, and as history shows, the first thing they do is to put a one way check valve so the counter revolution can't happen. Not then, not now, and you saw that play out.
But, that's ok and I get to spend my 4 figure dues refund on some bling for my Miata.
08-04-2023, 01:14 PM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 179
Speaking as someone who flew that thing for years and thousands of hours, I never once did a 6-7 leg day in it. My worst was 5, and I only did that once. 4 was rare, 1-3 was typical. Early flights took off around 6, not 5. For the most part we were putting the fleet to bed somewhere between 10 and 11 at night, redeyes excluded. All the redeyes were one leg. So yeah, our lines and trips were far better than anything Group 2 offers today. ODANs didn't exist. The cockpit was a sauna in the summer though.
08-04-2023, 10:39 PM
#220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 176
That’s some high-level rationalization right there.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
You do realize the MLBPA fought (unlike APA) for this little thing called free agency, right? Which is the antithesis of our non-existent portability.
I’ve never seen the level of self-delusion that we are witnessing here from many AA pilots trying to convince others in the industry (but mostly themselves) why it’s ok to shirk their duty as unionists to raise the bar, and fail so pathetically and spinelessly in this “up” negotiating cycle.
And by all means, let’s hear your painfully contorted take on why working at DAL is like playing for the Yankees. This should be good.
In AA’s pilot group right now, it seems the loudest “no” voters simply don’t/can’t/won’t acknowledge that AA at this point in time (really since the mergers) is not on the same financial footing Delta is, so a direct comparison is useful, but ultimately moot. They love to compare without acknowledging the structural differences of the employers.
Back to baseball…the Yankees and Royals play the same sport and are technically competitors, but the Royals are most likely never going to “set the market” for a given position’s salary or “raise the bar” for pay, no matter how much or how good a player’s agent is. The Yankees consistently do. That’s what Delta, the most profitable U.S. airline in the industry did, and everyone should be grateful for it. Glad we beat that analogy to death.
Again, that doesn’t mean a pilot getting hired today can’t have a great and extremely profitable career at AA with the new TA, even if it lags DAL in some respects. Most would likely agree that future seniority projections and base options tip in AA’s favor for a pilot interested in those things.
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