Originally Posted by Name User

If you vote no, you will lose the 20% raise you've been getting since May 2023 and it will take a year or more to finish arbitration, for which not only is aligning the pay to hire date in question but also the implementation schedule which would be decided by an arbitrator.

So you vote no. We go to arbitration, and it gets hammered out in 12 months. In those 12 months, you've lost:
.

• 20% increase in current pay from May 2023 to August 2024 (16 months)
• Assuming blended first/second year pay as nb FO, this amounts to about $38,000 in lost income (it's actually a little more, because of our raise in 2024)
• any signing bonuses thrown in by company for goodwill (these expire if not signed by August 7th IIRC)
• subtract the $5k you'd gain if aligned immediately and you're left with $33k, but that doesn't include the retro pay that you have coming your way. Guessing it's at least a wash. Back to $38k in arrears

Now, 12 months comes around and arbitrator implements the same pay scale as decided but decides to implement the alignment immediately. This means you've gained approximately 83 hrs x 2 months or $5,000 (second year pay at this point).

So congrats, you've just showed the company how smart you are. You may want to ask some US Airways guys about how well arbitration actually works.

We are hiring just fine with our current contract, which is frankly none of our concern. If Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country etc can hire, AA will have no problem hiring especially with the new contract.

Nobody really cares what you think, you offer nothing of value and write with grammar similar to a 15 year old. Probably why they ignored you. If you really are at AA, it's time to gain some maturity and act like an adult when addressing peers. BTW I'm a millennial so GTFO with the boomer retort.

Originally Posted by ImSoSuss

Prove the next step is arbitration. It won’t be and don’t fall for their bluff.

I’m a no vote. My requests were ignored. I do not give a **** about your back pay. Nobody cares what I think yet you replied with a wall of text. “But your gRaMmAr” Lol, gtfo

Originally Posted by Rroku

These yes voters are why AA pilots can't have nice things.


Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year. Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.

Can't decline RO anymore.

Electronic notification making it easier for the company.

Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.

Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.

No penalties if AA misses deadlines.

No snap up.

No two pilot requirement in the contract.



Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.


So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.

Originally Posted by ClownDown

If the UA TA is significantly better, will it impact any of you ‘yes’ voters?

Originally Posted by CRJCapitan

Of course it would. My feeling is it will easily pass if things stay as is and it will be crushed if they come out with something. I absolutely believe SK will try to mess with AA.

The caveat is that it would require UA to improve work rules to at least meet ours (given theirs wouldn't pass otherwise), which isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion.

Originally Posted by dsevo

Very anccurate assessment. I’m really hoping they come out with a grand slam.

Originally Posted by El Peso

Just understand that a grand slam for them doesn’t mean it’s a grand slam for us. For example if they get rid of field standby that would be huge for them. What does that do for us?

Originally Posted by dsevo

Wholeheartedly agree. Their QOL needs to at least match ours. But if they do that, and also accrue much higher sick time, that starts becoming a compelling reason to believe AA can do better.

Originally Posted by avi8tor614

I am still reading the contract “I’m a slow reader” lol. All I want to point out from reading these forums is that May 1, 2023 we had 96% of our members vote 99% in favor of a strike. We already knew what the money would be. The money has not changed. Why even go through the motions of voting in favor of a strike if this was not about money. It was about QOL and work rules. If this TA passes those who voted in favor of a strike IMO should not have voted in favor of a strike. loyalty to the money was more important (nothing wrong with that if that drives you I like money too!). As a new guy here I thought we were going to fight for something other than the paycheck which was already presented to us. Am I to understand that the 1% that voted against the strike were the only honest people here and that no matter what quality of life didn’t matter?

I see complaints about APA, but WE are the last defense to “try” to get some more QOL issues resolved, but from what I’m seeing fear of losing that money is more of an issue. We should have simply instructed our APA to get that loot and nothing else mattered. We talk about APA and their shortcomings, but what about ours as a group. The 18 month discretion of the company for one and no snap bothers me personally, for others it may be something different that bothers them significantly. If it does stand by your strike vote unless the money is more important. You were willing then, why not “try” to get what you want now. Yes it’s a gamble we “could” lose doesn’t mean we “will” lose. That’s management’s position they are and will fight for what they want Why won’t we?

It’s Going to take me about a week maybe two to get through this entire contract and understand it. I just want to know, all these YES voters who have read the full contract already, you statistically were part of the 96% that voted and voted 99% in favor of a strike in May. What changed your/our tune, and this ultimately to anyone who votes yes, are the QOL improvements in this proposed TA, (that even our BOD says they were disappointed in) that much better than our voice we had on May 1? If it is definitely vote yes. But if not why settle, we are 15000 pilots strong. Let’s at least try to get what we want. I understand the consequences, but consequences can positive or negative. You’ll never achieve anything unless you try for it, those that settle will get exactly what they settled for.