Vote NO. Why:
07-12-2023, 07:11 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,247
Yeah, Ed’s comments were unexpected to me. I thought he’d be more positive about what a NO vote could accomplish. He didn’t seem optimistic that the company would give more, and said mediation is tough, “they don’t like to mess with work rules”. He did not say how he would vote though.
07-12-2023, 08:15 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
Well this is probably one of the most nonsensical, least logical statements posted lately.
Basically, if you can’t have your perfect grand-slam contract complete with your own personal unicorn, you’d rather work under worse rules and pay indefinitely.
I’m on board with the others. It’s not a home run. But I’ll take the triple and advance e forward. Voting yes.
07-12-2023, 08:18 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: pilot
Posts: 584
Well this is probably one of the most nonsensical, least logical statements posted lately.
Basically, if you can’t have your perfect grand-slam contract complete with your own personal unicorn, you’d rather work under worse rules and pay indefinitely.
I’m on board with the others. It’s not a home run. But I’ll take the triple and advance e forward. Voting yes.
Basically, if you can’t have your perfect grand-slam contract complete with your own personal unicorn, you’d rather work under worse rules and pay indefinitely.
I’m on board with the others. It’s not a home run. But I’ll take the triple and advance e forward. Voting yes.
Don’t try to understand. It will make your head hurt.
07-12-2023, 08:25 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 199
These yes voters are why AA pilots can't have nice things.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year. Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year. Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
07-12-2023, 08:32 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
These yes voters are why AA pilots can't have nice things.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year.
Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year.
Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year.
Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year.
Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
All sarcasm aside…I think it’s fantasy to believe if we vote no, then AA will come running to us to settle on these items. Bottom line is we have no shortage of applicants. And even SWA, which is losing people left and right, has remained stubborn and refuses to settle their negotiations. You really do think AA will cave to your demands? It’s highly unlikely they will. Voting no will only drag this out even longer for marginal or no real gains.
07-12-2023, 08:34 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,318
These yes voters are why AA pilots can't have nice things.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year. Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year. Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Can't decline RO anymore.
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay. Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
07-12-2023, 09:07 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,318
These yes voters are why AA pilots can't have nice things.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year.
I think you’re talking about how this affects new hires maybe? If so, with this TA news hires will be preloaded 22:30 of sick upon completion of initial training.
Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Agreed. This is stupid.
Can't decline RO anymore.
You can unilaterally decline future RO. Also daily RO with mutual agreement (I know, I know…)
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
It’s electronic communication. You can set your preferences to still require first person contact. Don’t know about you but I don’t enjoy checking my voicemail, going though the phone tree, being on hold, only to tell tracking “yes I see you delayed my departure tomorrow afternoon”. Also I don’t enjoy repeating that process to tell them that I will NS my DH. Or that I’m calling in sick. I’m looking forward to 21st century communication.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
85% of contract value, NOT including pay rates, goes into effect on DOS.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
Wrong. There’s a lot to this section, but the penalties comes through a separate grievance process established outside of section 23 that includes an objective arbitrator who can impose damages. (Four such arbitrators have been selected by AA and APA)
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay.
Yes thanks Delta, and we surpassed them by getting a 3% raise three months prior to the amendable date.
Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
Bottom of the barrel sick accrual at 60 hours a year. Don't get the sick hours you've earned until the following year.
I think you’re talking about how this affects new hires maybe? If so, with this TA news hires will be preloaded 22:30 of sick upon completion of initial training.
Can't pick up the remainder of the trip if you call out of any part.
Agreed. This is stupid.
Can't decline RO anymore.
You can unilaterally decline future RO. Also daily RO with mutual agreement (I know, I know…)
Electronic notification making it easier for the company.
It’s electronic communication. You can set your preferences to still require first person contact. Don’t know about you but I don’t enjoy checking my voicemail, going though the phone tree, being on hold, only to tell tracking “yes I see you delayed my departure tomorrow afternoon”. Also I don’t enjoy repeating that process to tell them that I will NS my DH. Or that I’m calling in sick. I’m looking forward to 21st century communication.
Nothing to fix TTS, red/redder - which is absolutely locked down and won't change.
Many things don't go into effect for 18-36 months.
85% of contract value, NOT including pay rates, goes into effect on DOS.
No penalties if AA misses deadlines.
Wrong. There’s a lot to this section, but the penalties comes through a separate grievance process established outside of section 23 that includes an objective arbitrator who can impose damages. (Four such arbitrators have been selected by AA and APA)
No snap up.
No two pilot requirement in the contract.
Just to name a few. We were promised QOL, it isn't there. At all. What you get is a pay raise thanks to Delta stepping up industry pay.
Yes thanks Delta, and we surpassed them by getting a 3% raise three months prior to the amendable date.
Biggest hiring boom ever. Largest numbers of retirements ever. If we vote no AA will have to come to the table quickly because they can't afford to let everyone else hire all the qualified applicants as the rest get their new contracts. We'll get stuck with the flows who can't get hired anywhere else and have no choice but waiting their turn.
So quick to cave in and accept anything thrown your way. It's pathetic.
Just saying.
07-12-2023, 09:12 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,247
Also don't forget back pay. I calculated out to just over $80k.
I don't understand the position of voting no because you are happy with the current contract. By the time we'd finish arbitration, we'll be halfway through his new contract. Good luck getting 18-24 months of back pay after it's turned down.
I don't understand the position of voting no because you are happy with the current contract. By the time we'd finish arbitration, we'll be halfway through his new contract. Good luck getting 18-24 months of back pay after it's turned down.
07-12-2023, 09:25 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 199
We earn 5 hours per month sick time. However, that sick time isn't awarded on a monthly basis. After working Jan - March we don't have 15 hours sick time come April. We get a lump sum 60 hours the following January for what we earned the previous year. And the (current) 15 hours fronted to newbs gets deducted down the road so you don't get 60 hours for the year, only 45.
07-12-2023, 11:50 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,970
I have the same problem. I just can’t get behind a no vote. Everyone has a price for everything. I guess real trip trade and more awesome reserve costs about 8.6 billion for me.
No one knows what will happen if we vote no. The company could come back quickly like the OP claims. Or they could tell us to F off for another year. Whatever we get would have to be epic to make it worth not having the 2 billion over the next year.
It’s an easy, ****ed off and disappointed yes for me.
No one knows what will happen if we vote no. The company could come back quickly like the OP claims. Or they could tell us to F off for another year. Whatever we get would have to be epic to make it worth not having the 2 billion over the next year.
It’s an easy, ****ed off and disappointed yes for me.
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