Originally Posted by highfarfast

I don't know man, it's starting to look to me like they're going for "it's better than what we have now" instead of "industry leading" based on what I've seen so far. Kinda underwhelmed.

Originally Posted by Supermoto

You're missing my point. I want everything you want, maybe more, but..... My goal is to get as much as the situation allows and not tank the whole deal because of some small details. The debate is whether it is worth it to keep sliding the deal back across the table until the music stops and we lose our bargaining power. The debate is not about whether I want to sit middle seat on a dh, of course I don't, it's about whether we're cutting off our nose to spite our face. I've been watching this industry (as a pilot from the outside) since before 9/11 I know how it works.

And on the other topic, I'll be coming in at the bottom of the seniority list where I should be. I know my place. I'd prefer to talk sports and hobbies. But if I'm asked what I think about other issues I'll gladly share and it would be interesting if someone told me to keep my mouth shut, but I think it would take a special person to actually say that to someone in the cockpit. I certainly never would, and I've been a pilot for over 30 years.

Originally Posted by Beech Dude

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Never been a 121 pilot, been watching so, knows how it works. Pilot over 30 yrs; I'll give PPL at 16, so 46ish? Uses "our" in posts, but not hired at the airline, nor a union member. Has no skin in current deal, yet tells us what small details we shouldn't worry about.

Definite Future Rubber stamp YES voter/We'll get em next time guy/gal.
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Originally Posted by Supermoto

Quick fact check:
Never been a 121 pilot - Wrong, currently a 121 WB FO
PPL at 16 - I don't think anyone has ever got their PPL at 16, at least in modern times.
Not hired at the airline - CJO in hand.

I would debate you, but you are so far out of touch with reality that I don't think it would be worth it.
Bottom line like I've said many times already, I want the absolute best deal possible for this contract.

Originally Posted by ImSoSuss

Why is anybody paying attention to this dolt from the "outside" trying to lecture us on our contract? I mean he should know better as he has done 49 hour middle seat deadheads and walked 10 miles in the snow to school every day as a kid.

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

Still into name calling as opposed to discussing the merits of the arguments I see.

BTW, someone could have been at AA for 30 years, that's doesn't magically grant them unassailable insight. Also, there is big difference between a lecture and asking a question as Supermoto did. Doltishness is not limited to those "from the outside"

Originally Posted by Supermoto

"I truly hope" implies uncertainty or a possibility. My opinion is yes. Certainly debatable. But again, with a 40% raise on the table I wonder if it is wise to be holding out for middle seats. The RLA really kills our negotiating ability and limits us to only negotiating when hiring gets difficult, like now. I think the environment is changing. Rapidly.

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

Supermoto is arguing "Law of diminishing returns" and "risk/reward" which any MBA course finds relevant. Even children learn this concept at an early age.

You are arguing, "shut up, you aren't allowed to have an opinion, because, ..reasons"

One of the positions seems to have a little more logic. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by ImSoSuss

There has to be merits in the firsts place in order to discuss them. Sorry not sorry you got so triggered by my post.