How was picketing? State of negotiations?
05-05-2023, 06:47 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
Not sarcastic in the least, and AA has the same provision.
Delta can and will call their business class whatever they want- “Delta One” was done purposely to attempt to make their biz class appear as a sort of international first class lite. It’s just marketing. Delta has a fine biz class product, but it is NOT a true international first class. Go look up what IFC looks like on AA, BA, Etihad, Emirates, Singapore, etc. You’ll also see why AA is doing away with the product- it’s significantly lagging and AA can’t compete with the foreign carriers.
Ask your FedEx buddies about the massive concession they gave their company on their last contract, which allowed FedEx to substitute business class for international first class, and how that’s worked out for them. Yes, there’s a lot of nuance there.
It’s ok. Tons of pilots at all airlines refer to business class as “first class”, even though it’s not. You aren’t the only one.
Delta can and will call their business class whatever they want- “Delta One” was done purposely to attempt to make their biz class appear as a sort of international first class lite. It’s just marketing. Delta has a fine biz class product, but it is NOT a true international first class. Go look up what IFC looks like on AA, BA, Etihad, Emirates, Singapore, etc. You’ll also see why AA is doing away with the product- it’s significantly lagging and AA can’t compete with the foreign carriers.
Ask your FedEx buddies about the massive concession they gave their company on their last contract, which allowed FedEx to substitute business class for international first class, and how that’s worked out for them. Yes, there’s a lot of nuance there.
It’s ok. Tons of pilots at all airlines refer to business class as “first class”, even though it’s not. You aren’t the only one.
I can’t speak to what AA does, but Delta pilots fly First Class on all ocean crossing DH’s 100% of the time , in addition to the provisons mentioned above so long as they available for sale.
05-05-2023, 07:01 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Where does it say "First Class"?
Delta’s fleet has two different types of premium seats: First Class and Delta One (the standard version, not the suite). First Class is primarily found on domestic flights and short-haul international flights, whereas Delta One, the airline’s business class product with flat-bed seats, is primarily found on long-haul international routes and some transcontinental domestic routes. Delta doesn’t have a true first class on its international flights like some airlines—Air France (La Premiere) and American Airlines (Flagship First) among them. The Delta One Suites are its top-tier product, and they’re reserved for long-haul international flights on widebody aircraft.
Delta One is Delta’s flat-bed premium product that is offered on long-haul international flights and some domestic transcontinental flights.
First Class
First Class is Delta’s premium product on domestic and short-haul international flights; seats are not flat-bed.
Delta One vs. domestic first class
Delta OneDelta One is Delta’s flat-bed premium product that is offered on long-haul international flights and some domestic transcontinental flights.
First Class
First Class is Delta’s premium product on domestic and short-haul international flights; seats are not flat-bed.
I don't really care what it's called, as long as I deadhead in it.
05-05-2023, 07:04 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,170
Nope. Frankly, you don’t know what you are talking about. I’m not talking about business class, what we call “Delta Premium Select”. I’m talking about this, First Class, fully lay flat suites with a door, and we are investing in more premium seats than anyone.
I can’t speak to what AA does, but Delta pilots fly First Class on all ocean crossing DH’s 100% of the time , in addition to the provisons mentioned above so long as they available for sale.
I can’t speak to what AA does, but Delta pilots fly First Class on all ocean crossing DH’s 100% of the time , in addition to the provisons mentioned above so long as they available for sale.
AA’s new biz class product on its upcoming 789s, A321XLRs, and 773s (replacing the IFC and current biz product on those) will also be a biz class with a door. It’ll still be biz.
I never said Delta pilots didn’t fly business class across an ocean. I said AA pilots have the same provision as Delta.
Maybe you’re just trolling me?
Whatever. Believe what you want to believe. Such a bizarre thing to double down on.
05-05-2023, 07:25 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 179
And on the other topic, I'll be coming in at the bottom of the seniority list where I should be. I know my place. I'd prefer to talk sports and hobbies. But if I'm asked what I think about other issues I'll gladly share and it would be interesting if someone told me to keep my mouth shut, but I think it would take a special person to actually say that to someone in the cockpit. I certainly never would, and I've been a pilot for over 30 years.
05-05-2023, 07:33 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 190
You are arguing, "shut up, you aren't allowed to have an opinion, because, ..reasons"
One of the positions seems to have a little more logic. But that's just me.
05-05-2023, 07:34 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 179
We are close but they are not budging.
Company will not move on deadhead middle seat assignments. Not even for flights over 3 hours.
Group pay vs. specific aircraft pay vs. banding. 40% raise company offered leaves us $13 below Delta 321NEO pay last year of contract.
Sick time accrual. Still not budging on 5 hrs/mo.
not budging on trip ownership, pairing distribution.
RO is complete. Better but not great. Now called CAP. 4 hours to get new assignment. Footprint shortened to original plus 4 hours. Still available for entire footprint. Not able to go home unless you give up pay guaranteed. One bite at the Apple may not be in there. My interpretation.
The board will not agree to anything other than Delta back pay or better.
Company will not move on deadhead middle seat assignments. Not even for flights over 3 hours.
Group pay vs. specific aircraft pay vs. banding. 40% raise company offered leaves us $13 below Delta 321NEO pay last year of contract.
Sick time accrual. Still not budging on 5 hrs/mo.
not budging on trip ownership, pairing distribution.
RO is complete. Better but not great. Now called CAP. 4 hours to get new assignment. Footprint shortened to original plus 4 hours. Still available for entire footprint. Not able to go home unless you give up pay guaranteed. One bite at the Apple may not be in there. My interpretation.
The board will not agree to anything other than Delta back pay or better.
05-05-2023, 07:37 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 179
Supermoto is arguing "Law of diminishing returns" and "risk/reward" which any MBA course finds relevant. Even children learn this concept at an early age.
You are arguing, "shut up, you aren't allowed to have an opinion, because, ..reasons"
One of the positions seems to have a little more logic. But that's just me.
You are arguing, "shut up, you aren't allowed to have an opinion, because, ..reasons"
One of the positions seems to have a little more logic. But that's just me.
But because he hasn't done the job, it's not an informed opinion.
05-05-2023, 08:11 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,318
Nope. Frankly, you don’t know what you are talking about. I’m not talking about business class, what we call “Delta Premium Select”. I’m talking about this, First Class, fully lay flat suites with a door, and we are investing in more premium seats than anyone.
I can’t speak to what AA does, but Delta pilots fly First Class on all ocean crossing DH’s 100% of the time , in addition to the provisons mentioned above so long as they available for sale.
I can’t speak to what AA does, but Delta pilots fly First Class on all ocean crossing DH’s 100% of the time , in addition to the provisons mentioned above so long as they available for sale.
05-05-2023, 09:03 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 753
UAL also gets number 1 on upgrade list -ahead of all revenue upgrades if no FC seat is available at time if of booking. Thats domestic, global guaranteed first will bump revenue to get you a seat.
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