Close Call at JFK
01-25-2023, 12:20 PM
#191
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,900
No I completely get the entire discussion and completely agree. Changing procedures without training is ridiculous.
My comment should of been from days ago but just adding to it now. I don't know what else has been changed but anytime anything changes there should be some sort of training on it.
My comment should of been from days ago but just adding to it now. I don't know what else has been changed but anytime anything changes there should be some sort of training on it.
Cheers 🍻
01-25-2023, 12:21 PM
#192
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,900
Didn't AA have a short lived procedure a few years back where the FO would make an announcement...."Remain seated until the CA turns off the seatbelt sign" timed to be made during the last few feet of parking? I seem to remember being in a few jumpseats and thinking how poorly though out that was.
01-25-2023, 12:33 PM
#193
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Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,596
No I completely get the entire discussion and completely agree. Changing procedures without training is ridiculous.
My comment should of been from days ago but just adding to it now. I don't know what else has been changed but anytime anything changes there should be some sort of training on it.
My comment should of been from days ago but just adding to it now. I don't know what else has been changed but anytime anything changes there should be some sort of training on it.
01-25-2023, 03:52 PM
#194
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Joined APC: May 2019
Position: NYC Based 320 CA
Posts: 232
Anyway, too bad you’re so miserable.
01-25-2023, 03:55 PM
#195
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Joined APC: May 2019
Position: NYC Based 320 CA
Posts: 232
If that’s what you are concluding then you’re missing the entire point of the discussion.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
01-25-2023, 05:26 PM
#197
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
If that’s what you are concluding then you’re missing the entire point of the discussion.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
Zero training is not correct. The bulletin came out a month prior to implementation. At least on the 320, there is an interactive guide, it was in DL and there is a two page summary that pretty much sums them up.
I hear many complain about how it was rolled out, but few suggestions on how it should have been done.
There is a page for feedback on the last page of the bulletin and they are being considered.
As professional pilots it is up to us to do all we can to show up prepared.
01-26-2023, 07:19 AM
#198
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Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,596
Zero training is not correct. The bulletin came out a month prior to implementation. At least on the 320, there is an interactive guide, it was in DL and there is a two page summary that pretty much sums them up.
I hear many complain about how it was rolled out, but few suggestions on how it should have been done.
There is a page for feedback on the last page of the bulletin and they are being considered.
As professional pilots it is up to us to do all we can to show up prepared.
I hear many complain about how it was rolled out, but few suggestions on how it should have been done.
There is a page for feedback on the last page of the bulletin and they are being considered.
As professional pilots it is up to us to do all we can to show up prepared.
01-26-2023, 07:47 AM
#199
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,535
The FOM does mention in it's opening Exterior Lights statement, as I quoted earlier, that "At the captain's discretion, all exterior lights may be used takeoff, approach, and crossing any runway." However, landing lights, taxi light on high, and wing lights are not required to be illuminated while crossing a runway. With that said, I think all of us agree, however, that the airplane should be very well lit while crossing.
01-26-2023, 09:32 AM
#200
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,064
Zero training is not correct. The bulletin came out a month prior to implementation. At least on the 320, there is an interactive guide, it was in DL and there is a two page summary that pretty much sums them up.
I hear many complain about how it was rolled out, but few suggestions on how it should have been done.
There is a page for feedback on the last page of the bulletin and they are being considered.
As professional pilots it is up to us to do all we can to show up prepared.
I hear many complain about how it was rolled out, but few suggestions on how it should have been done.
There is a page for feedback on the last page of the bulletin and they are being considered.
As professional pilots it is up to us to do all we can to show up prepared.
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