Close Call at JFK
01-24-2023, 07:08 PM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,535
From our current FOM:
“At the captain’s discretion, all exterior lights may be used for takeoff, approach, and
crossing any runway.”
I light most of them up during a crossing, except maybe the landing lights, since they face forward into the aircraft on the taxiways on the other side and don’t really do much good for an aircraft 90 degrees to my side on the runway itself. So, taxi lights on high, runway turnoff lights, wing lights. Once crossed, all off again except taxi light to low.
“At the captain’s discretion, all exterior lights may be used for takeoff, approach, and
crossing any runway.”
I light most of them up during a crossing, except maybe the landing lights, since they face forward into the aircraft on the taxiways on the other side and don’t really do much good for an aircraft 90 degrees to my side on the runway itself. So, taxi lights on high, runway turnoff lights, wing lights. Once crossed, all off again except taxi light to low.
01-25-2023, 04:00 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,908
From our current FOM:
“At the captain’s discretion, all exterior lights may be used for takeoff, approach, and
crossing any runway.”
I light most of them up during a crossing, except maybe the landing lights, since they face forward into the aircraft on the taxiways on the other side and don’t really do much good for an aircraft 90 degrees to my side on the runway itself. So, taxi lights on high, runway turnoff lights, wing lights. Once crossed, all off again except taxi light to low.
“At the captain’s discretion, all exterior lights may be used for takeoff, approach, and
crossing any runway.”
I light most of them up during a crossing, except maybe the landing lights, since they face forward into the aircraft on the taxiways on the other side and don’t really do much good for an aircraft 90 degrees to my side on the runway itself. So, taxi lights on high, runway turnoff lights, wing lights. Once crossed, all off again except taxi light to low.
01-25-2023, 06:17 AM
#184
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,973
Feel better now? My day hasn't changed now that I know I lack your approval.
Also, you could have said that all in one post. Welcome to the internet, gramps. Follow me for more tips.
Also, you could have said that all in one post. Welcome to the internet, gramps. Follow me for more tips.
01-25-2023, 06:49 AM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 199
And every captain I've flown with still doesn't know the changes and there's still discussion on who does what and who says what at critical phases of the flight where there should be zero confusion on anything.
Good for you if you did what management wanted. Significant changes, and yes 30+ pages is significant, should be instructed and taught to a standard, not self-taught with company guidance to mix and match until we know it.
01-25-2023, 11:07 AM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,079
This whole only the CA made the prepare for T/O PA blows my mind. And that all of a sudden a change in procedure is what people are using as an excuse for what happened. Whomever makes the PA shouldn't be the reason pilots crossed the wrong runway when they weren't cleared. Before Takeoff PA Should be the FO and only the FO. Leaving the CA to only have to worry about taxing ( not literally the only thing but you get what I'm saying).
01-25-2023, 11:31 AM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,900
This whole only the CA made the prepare for T/O PA blows my mind. And that all of a sudden a change in procedure is what people are using as an excuse for what happened. Whomever makes the PA shouldn't be the reason pilots crossed the wrong runway when they weren't cleared. Before Takeoff PA Should be the FO and only the FO. Leaving the CA to only have to worry about taxing ( not literally the only thing but you get what I'm saying).
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
01-25-2023, 11:41 AM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Didn't AA have a short lived procedure a few years back where the FO would make an announcement...."Remain seated until the CA turns off the seatbelt sign" timed to be made during the last few feet of parking? I seem to remember being in a few jumpseats and thinking how poorly though out that was.
01-25-2023, 11:42 AM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,079
If that’s what you are concluding then you’re missing the entire point of the discussion.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
It’s most likely not just the PA that caused the runway incursion. rather, it could most likely be the fact that this was the first flight for all 3 crew members using procedures that AA did not train them for other than by a do-it-yourself bulletin. Which probably caused more than a little confusion while taxiing… and given that incidents and accidents are caused by a chain of events, one could easily see this chain slowly building up until the last hole lined up.
These procedures are brand new to AA pilots, and there is a LOT of stuff that changed, with zero training.
No I completely get the entire discussion and completely agree. Changing procedures without training is ridiculous.
My comment should of been from days ago but just adding to it now. I don't know what else has been changed but anytime anything changes there should be some sort of training on it.
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