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Old 01-20-2023, 04:18 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Arado 234

First Officer On American JFK Runway Incursion Flight Had Added Task At Departure, Source Says

The first officer on American Airlines Flight 106, which was involved in a runway incursion Friday night at Kennedy International Airport, was flying her first flight with new cockpit procedures, a source said.

At the time of the incursion, which forced a Delta Air Lines aircraft to stop suddenly, the first officer was engaged in a series of tasks that involved processing takeoff data that included flap and power settings as well as a runway assessment.

But for the first time, under new procedures introduced Jan. 2, she also had to make an announcement informing passengers and flight attendants of the impending takeoff, said the source, a pilot who has knowledge of the incident and who asked not to be named.The procedures require the 777 first officer to inform passengers and flight attendants that takeoff is imminent. That announcement was previously made by the captain. It requires the first officer to interrupt continuing tasks, be precise on timing and change intercom settings.

The first officer, an experienced 737 pilot, was making her first 777 flight after 100 hours of training flights that did not include the new procedures.

“She has all this data to analyze and input, plus she has a new task on top of all that,” the source said. “She was overwhelmed.”

In the incident, Flight 106 crossed a runway about 1,000 feet in front of Delta Air Lines Flight 1943, which had to abort its takeoff. The Delta plane returned to the gate. The American plane, its pilots unaware of the close call, continued to London. No one was injured. Air traffic controller communications indicate that Flight 106 was on the wrong runway at the time.

Many have questioned why the American crew did not return to the gate after the incursion. The reason is that they had no knowledge of the seriousness of the incident, the source said. After the incident occurred, controllers gave the pilots a number to call.

They called, but it is unclear whether they got through, the source said.

“The crew didn’t understand the gravity of what occurred until they got to London,” the source said. “That is when they realized what happened. Until then, they didn’t know there had been a runway incursion.”

Although the first officer was experienced on the Boeing 737, “she was brand new in that airplane,” said the source. “She had just read the 35-page bulletin that changes procedures.”

The captain, meanwhile, had to make a left turn and then a right turn to get on the runway, and so did not have sufficient visibility to see stop bar lights on the runway. The captain was in fact on his way to another runway. A third pilot in the cockpit also could not see the lights.

At the time of the incident, the pilots had just switched to the tower frequency from the American ground tower. “They never heard Delta cleared for takeoff,” the source said. “Delta was cleared for takeoff before they switched over.”

On January 2, American Airlines implemented new cockpit procedures including changes to cockpit communications during critical events including takeoff. Allied Pilots Association, which represents 15,000 American pilots, said the implementation involves an attempt to alter critical procedures through a 35-page bulletin and changes in a 65- page manual rather than through in person training.

An American spokeswoman declined to comment for this story, citing the ongoing National Transportation Safety Board investigation of the incident.

The Federal Aviation Administration’s Dallas-based principal operations inspector for American Airlines approved the implementation of the new procedures. Even before the incident, APA had appealed the approval.
Whoever the APA source was that planted this should be shot. Makes the FO look incompetent, like she can’t multitask. You’re telling me the APA is going to hang their hat on the FO being oversaturated with saying “we’re #3 for departure, flight attendants prepare the cabin and be seated?”

C’mon…
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Old 01-20-2023, 04:31 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by JayRalstonSmith
Whoever the APA source was that planted this should be shot. Makes the FO look incompetent, like she can’t multitask. You’re telling me the APA is going to hang their hat on the FO being oversaturated with saying “we’re #3 for departure, flight attendants prepare the cabin and be seated?”

C’mon…
I agree. Good grief that was bad.
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Old 01-20-2023, 05:10 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by JayRalstonSmith
Whoever the APA source was that planted this should be shot.

You’re telling me the APA is going to hang their hat on the FO being oversaturated

I completely agree, but what else did you expect from APA? Throw the lower 75% of the pilot group under the bus to protect the top 25% - contract negotiations, anyone?

The new procedures may not even be the main cause, but probably too much ego and testosterone pressuring the female fo to hurry and lost SA in the process! OBVIOUSLY, just speculation. Just an observation while JS on many of our flights!
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Old 01-20-2023, 07:20 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Arado 234
That begs another question here at AA. Why can F/O's not taxi the airplane? Weren't the A300 F/O's allowed to taxi back then? Must be an ego... I mean money thing.
Its because they don't know how to taxi slow enough yet.
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Old 01-20-2023, 07:59 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by nene
Its because they don't know how to taxi slow enough yet.
hahahaha true
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Old 01-20-2023, 08:17 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by ImSoSuss
There was a hidden agenda behind the source and it had nothing to do with the FO, she was just a casualty of war. They were trying to call out the "training by bulletin" of procedure and flow changes that AA just attempted fleet wide which caused much consternation from the pilot group and the union.
If that's true, it's NOTHING but a continuation of the all too common phrase.....

....."pilots are their own worst enemy"
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Old 01-21-2023, 07:48 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by JayRalstonSmith
Whoever the APA source was that planted this should be shot. Makes the FO look incompetent, like she can’t multitask. You’re telling me the APA is going to hang their hat on the FO being oversaturated with saying “we’re #3 for departure, flight attendants prepare the cabin and be seated?”

C’mon…
Shot and set on fire. The blame is 100% on the captain. He didn't know where he was going, didn't use his crew to ensure safe operations, didn't manage workload, didn't place any emphasis on hot spots, nor put more effort into crossing an active runway, you know, a runway with active departures, let alone crossing the correct runway. The Forbes hit piece is deflection from all that. And to top it off, is bull-malarky as to why they decided to continue. If you're told to call ATC regarding a possible pilot deviation, the full extent of that deviation should be described. Uh, hey crew, uh, we just caused an abort by Delta because we crossed the wrong runway. Let's make up some PA's. Hi people, disregard that Delta plane that was careening towards us, that's just a little procedure ATC likes to pull on us once in a while.

I hope that captain isn't working for awhile, he needs a full retraining.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:50 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Skylarking
Probably because ‘fleet harmonization’. I like your idea, but for better or for worse, we all do it the same.
Retired Delta 7ER guy here. Fleet harmonization extends all the way down to who makes a PA??? We always had the relief guy do the PAs, especially prior to TO when the 2 up front guys were concentrating on before TO stuff. Really makes the most sense....but common sense often times loses out to other prioritie$.....Oh and FWIW, I don't think I would have continued on to LHR.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:58 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Myfingershurt
Why doesn’t the relief guy make the “prepare for takeoff announcement”
BINGO. If necessary, simply state, "With augmented crews, Relief pilot makes the pre T/O PA"

Last edited by Cogf16; 01-21-2023 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:13 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Cogf16
BINGO. If necessary, simply state, "With augmented crews, Relief pilot makes the pre T/O"
I like what envoy does. No pa. Just double chime.
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