What to choose AA or SWA?
01-04-2023, 01:55 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 766
Lots of wrong info being thrown around about SWA.
1. If you're tired call it. No questions asked.
2. You CAN work hard... you also can work 10-12 days a month and be done with it.
3. You CAN work trips that have 4-5 legs a day. You CAN also work trips that have 1-2 legs a day... or if you're feeling really spicy 0 legs a day during the recent issue in December...
4. You CAN make a lot here. But if you work hard at any place you can make good money. You have to look at the average not the outliers. Because working 23 days a month is brutal no matter where you are.
5. Upgrade system wide at swa dropped to the 2015 mark, which is 7 years on property. Its forecasted to go lower but that could always change.
6. Yeah, you'll be in the 737 for at least the next 15 years I bet.
1. If you're tired call it. No questions asked.
2. You CAN work hard... you also can work 10-12 days a month and be done with it.
3. You CAN work trips that have 4-5 legs a day. You CAN also work trips that have 1-2 legs a day... or if you're feeling really spicy 0 legs a day during the recent issue in December...
4. You CAN make a lot here. But if you work hard at any place you can make good money. You have to look at the average not the outliers. Because working 23 days a month is brutal no matter where you are.
5. Upgrade system wide at swa dropped to the 2015 mark, which is 7 years on property. Its forecasted to go lower but that could always change.
6. Yeah, you'll be in the 737 for at least the next 15 years I bet.
01-05-2023, 03:20 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,778
Lots of wrong info being thrown around about SWA.
1. If you're tired call it. No questions asked.
2. You CAN work hard... you also can work 10-12 days a month and be done with it.
3. You CAN work trips that have 4-5 legs a day. You CAN also work trips that have 1-2 legs a day... or if you're feeling really spicy 0 legs a day during the recent issue in December...
4. You CAN make a lot here. But if you work hard at any place you can make good money. You have to look at the average not the outliers. Because working 23 days a month is brutal no matter where you are.
5. Upgrade system wide at swa dropped to the 2015 mark, which is 7 years on property. Its forecasted to go lower but that could always change.
6. Yeah, you'll be in the 737 for at least the next 15 years I bet.
1. If you're tired call it. No questions asked.
2. You CAN work hard... you also can work 10-12 days a month and be done with it.
3. You CAN work trips that have 4-5 legs a day. You CAN also work trips that have 1-2 legs a day... or if you're feeling really spicy 0 legs a day during the recent issue in December...
4. You CAN make a lot here. But if you work hard at any place you can make good money. You have to look at the average not the outliers. Because working 23 days a month is brutal no matter where you are.
5. Upgrade system wide at swa dropped to the 2015 mark, which is 7 years on property. Its forecasted to go lower but that could always change.
6. Yeah, you'll be in the 737 for at least the next 15 years I bet.
Personal opinions are just that. Find out what has the easiest commute (hopefully by car) and go for it. After that every company managment sucks, we are all paid fairly close to each other and you make more or less mostly depending on how hard you choose to work.
Granted I have been here a very short time but I think the culture is alive and well at WN on the line even if management would like it to go away.
01-05-2023, 05:00 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,171
Agreed and to add to this, I don’t get the hang up about flying the same plane for a career. In my opinion at least once you are up there and comfortable with the flight deck, they all essentially feel the same. Sure the Airbus was more comfortable but not enough to make a career decision over. I get some people want that long haul stuff, but I cringe when I have a 3 hour leg so I’m not missing that and in terms of seeing far off locations, that’s what my time off is for so I can enjoy it with my wife, not the people I have been trapped in a can with for 12 hours.
Personal opinions are just that. Find out what has the easiest commute (hopefully by car) and go for it. After that every company managment sucks, we are all paid fairly close to each other and you make more or less mostly depending on how hard you choose to work.
Granted I have been here a very short time but I think the culture is alive and well at WN on the line even if management would like it to go away.
Personal opinions are just that. Find out what has the easiest commute (hopefully by car) and go for it. After that every company managment sucks, we are all paid fairly close to each other and you make more or less mostly depending on how hard you choose to work.
Granted I have been here a very short time but I think the culture is alive and well at WN on the line even if management would like it to go away.
I’m with you, I have zero desire to hang out with fellow employees on a layover, for the most part. There are definitely exceptions, of course. I’ve developed into quite the slam-clicker… the hotel door slams closed behind me as I go explore, meet up with old friends and family, or whatever.
01-08-2023, 12:58 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 187
On the widebody transoceanic, you spend 2-4 hours in the seat followed by a 2-4 hour break. There are widebody turns, transcons, and hub-hub repositions, domestic NB style flying at WB rates with fewer time zones/WOCL flying. Can you do that in a 737 at SW? Multiple fleets leads to more training events, more options, and quicker upgrades…
I’m with you, I have zero desire to hang out with fellow employees on a layover, for the most part. There are definitely exceptions, of course. I’ve developed into quite the slam-clicker… the hotel door slams closed behind me as I go explore, meet up with old friends and family, or whatever.
I’m with you, I have zero desire to hang out with fellow employees on a layover, for the most part. There are definitely exceptions, of course. I’ve developed into quite the slam-clicker… the hotel door slams closed behind me as I go explore, meet up with old friends and family, or whatever.
01-08-2023, 01:21 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 538
There is no WB domestic bid status. WB CA was running about 30 years. I think FO is around 5-6 years in the junior bases. Domestic turns generally go junior. Lots of sick calls for domestic turns so they tend to go to reserves.
01-08-2023, 01:24 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,752
Don't know what wide body domestic is. Is there still a such thing in 2023 with other airlines? Any way, AA does not have the wide body fleet the other Legacies have so expect to take longer to hold one here. However I just saw a stat that a surprising number of WB CA's are within two years of retiring.
01-08-2023, 01:35 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 538
As a reference point there are appx 1,000 WB CAs at AA out of +- 15,000 pilots. To hold a junior WB CA slot you need a seniority number around 3,000. You can look at retirement #s to figure out how long it will take to reach the 3k mark. The big unknown is what AA is planning for the 772s. If we keep those then WB CA should trend more junior as we receive additional 787s over the next few years. If they park the 772s then it will be a loooong wait.
01-08-2023, 06:17 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Early Retiree SWA
Posts: 354
I’ve flown and retired from both AA and SWA!
AA for 20 years, SW for 4 (Covid early retirement)
Hired back in late 80’s so my AA thoughts may be dated but between the two the differences are significant.
SWA is a “Machine”…. They go hard and they go fast. As soon as you finish the Eng shutdown checklist, the captain gets up, opens the door and without fail, the gate agent is there with the next flight plan so we can minimize time on the ground. No time to really get any food because you’re preflighting for the next leg. No food on SW. As an FO, you will be BUSY, more so than any other airline I’ve been with. When at AA, we’d heard 2nd year guys at SW could make $150k/year back in the early 90’s and found it hard to believe… but its true. The system at SW is a win win for both pilots and company and if you want to bid “smartly” with the “premium pay” possibility, you can get a **** load of money.
You work fewer days per month at SW but you will be very “productive” during your flying days each month…with up to 5 legs a day. Example, I finished a FLL-LAS flight (in winter) and was then tagged upon landing in LAS (my home base and what I though was the end of the trip), I was reassigned (at higher pay.. 1.5 times normal pay) to fly on to LGB, SAC and then back to Vegas. That… was a LONG day. The trip trade system at SW is excellent and will allow you to fly as much or as little as you want with the corresponding pay
At AA I found the schedule to be very “gentlemanly” and we flew (in those days) about 72-ish hours per month. If you flew transcons, that was your day. I honestly don’t recall ever doing 3 legs in one day in my 20 years at AA. Almost always thru a hub and then to the layover city. The trip trade system left a lot to be desired back then but it may be much better now… or not.
SWA is now run by accountant types, which is almost always a bad sign, IMO. They had the holiday meltdown because of the lack of technology to move crews and airplanes. To a degree that is also on their 737’s.
Good people at both airlines who work hard to try to make things better. I will say, I had a great time flying for SWA… just really good people….
Obviously the airplane and routes will play into your decision…. Ability to fly long haul at AA vs a little more commuter like style of flying at SWA.
When hired in 1989, AA was hiring 90 pilots per month so I moved up the seniority list quickly and was never furloughed, but it did happen to others. All the guys I was hired with are now in the retirement age so it could be a quicker upgrade than SWA.
SWA has not ever furloughed. During Covid, Southwest talked about having to furlough but instead offered us either early retirement with approx 75% pay for either 5 years or to age 65 whichever came first, OR…. A leave of absent of up to 5 years with a smaller pay/benefits package. Sorry dont recall what it was.
Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I would still pick AA.
Kap
AA for 20 years, SW for 4 (Covid early retirement)
Hired back in late 80’s so my AA thoughts may be dated but between the two the differences are significant.
SWA is a “Machine”…. They go hard and they go fast. As soon as you finish the Eng shutdown checklist, the captain gets up, opens the door and without fail, the gate agent is there with the next flight plan so we can minimize time on the ground. No time to really get any food because you’re preflighting for the next leg. No food on SW. As an FO, you will be BUSY, more so than any other airline I’ve been with. When at AA, we’d heard 2nd year guys at SW could make $150k/year back in the early 90’s and found it hard to believe… but its true. The system at SW is a win win for both pilots and company and if you want to bid “smartly” with the “premium pay” possibility, you can get a **** load of money.
You work fewer days per month at SW but you will be very “productive” during your flying days each month…with up to 5 legs a day. Example, I finished a FLL-LAS flight (in winter) and was then tagged upon landing in LAS (my home base and what I though was the end of the trip), I was reassigned (at higher pay.. 1.5 times normal pay) to fly on to LGB, SAC and then back to Vegas. That… was a LONG day. The trip trade system at SW is excellent and will allow you to fly as much or as little as you want with the corresponding pay
At AA I found the schedule to be very “gentlemanly” and we flew (in those days) about 72-ish hours per month. If you flew transcons, that was your day. I honestly don’t recall ever doing 3 legs in one day in my 20 years at AA. Almost always thru a hub and then to the layover city. The trip trade system left a lot to be desired back then but it may be much better now… or not.
SWA is now run by accountant types, which is almost always a bad sign, IMO. They had the holiday meltdown because of the lack of technology to move crews and airplanes. To a degree that is also on their 737’s.
Good people at both airlines who work hard to try to make things better. I will say, I had a great time flying for SWA… just really good people….
Obviously the airplane and routes will play into your decision…. Ability to fly long haul at AA vs a little more commuter like style of flying at SWA.
When hired in 1989, AA was hiring 90 pilots per month so I moved up the seniority list quickly and was never furloughed, but it did happen to others. All the guys I was hired with are now in the retirement age so it could be a quicker upgrade than SWA.
SWA has not ever furloughed. During Covid, Southwest talked about having to furlough but instead offered us either early retirement with approx 75% pay for either 5 years or to age 65 whichever came first, OR…. A leave of absent of up to 5 years with a smaller pay/benefits package. Sorry dont recall what it was.
Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I would still pick AA.
Kap
01-08-2023, 06:30 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 30
Sorry if I missed it but how realistic is it to fly a schedule of only 10-12 days a month at SWA? Does this involve trip trading or depend on another pilot picking up a trip?
01-08-2023, 06:39 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
I’ve flown and retired from both AA and SWA!
AA for 20 years, SW for 4 (Covid early retirement)
Hired back in late 80’s so my AA thoughts may be dated but between the two the differences are significant.
SWA is a “Machine”…. They go hard and they go fast. As soon as you finish the Eng shutdown checklist, the captain gets up, opens the door and without fail, the gate agent is there with the next flight plan so we can minimize time on the ground. No time to really get any food because you’re preflighting for the next leg. No food on SW. As an FO, you will be BUSY, more so than any other airline I’ve been with. When at AA, we’d heard 2nd year guys at SW could make $150k/year back in the early 90’s and found it hard to believe… but its true. The system at SW is a win win for both pilots and company and if you want to bid “smartly” with the “premium pay” possibility, you can get a **** load of money.
You work fewer days per month at SW but you will be very “productive” during your flying days each month…with up to 5 legs a day. Example, I finished a FLL-LAS flight (in winter) and was then tagged upon landing in LAS (my home base and what I though was the end of the trip), I was reassigned (at higher pay.. 1.5 times normal pay) to fly on to LGB, SAC and then back to Vegas. That… was a LONG day. The trip trade system at SW is excellent and will allow you to fly as much or as little as you want with the corresponding pay
At AA I found the schedule to be very “gentlemanly” and we flew (in those days) about 72-ish hours per month. If you flew transcons, that was your day. I honestly don’t recall ever doing 3 legs in one day in my 20 years at AA. Almost always thru a hub and then to the layover city. The trip trade system left a lot to be desired back then but it may be much better now… or not.
SWA is now run by accountant types, which is almost always a bad sign, IMO. They had the holiday meltdown because of the lack of technology to move crews and airplanes. To a degree that is also on their 737’s.
Good people at both airlines who work hard to try to make things better. I will say, I had a great time flying for SWA… just really good people….
Obviously the airplane and routes will play into your decision…. Ability to fly long haul at AA vs a little more commuter like style of flying at SWA.
When hired in 1989, AA was hiring 90 pilots per month so I moved up the seniority list quickly and was never furloughed, but it did happen to others. All the guys I was hired with are now in the retirement age so it could be a quicker upgrade than SWA.
SWA has not ever furloughed. During Covid, Southwest talked about having to furlough but instead offered us either early retirement with approx 75% pay for either 5 years or to age 65 whichever came first, OR…. A leave of absent of up to 5 years with a smaller pay/benefits package. Sorry dont recall what it was.
Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I would still pick AA.
Kap
AA for 20 years, SW for 4 (Covid early retirement)
Hired back in late 80’s so my AA thoughts may be dated but between the two the differences are significant.
SWA is a “Machine”…. They go hard and they go fast. As soon as you finish the Eng shutdown checklist, the captain gets up, opens the door and without fail, the gate agent is there with the next flight plan so we can minimize time on the ground. No time to really get any food because you’re preflighting for the next leg. No food on SW. As an FO, you will be BUSY, more so than any other airline I’ve been with. When at AA, we’d heard 2nd year guys at SW could make $150k/year back in the early 90’s and found it hard to believe… but its true. The system at SW is a win win for both pilots and company and if you want to bid “smartly” with the “premium pay” possibility, you can get a **** load of money.
You work fewer days per month at SW but you will be very “productive” during your flying days each month…with up to 5 legs a day. Example, I finished a FLL-LAS flight (in winter) and was then tagged upon landing in LAS (my home base and what I though was the end of the trip), I was reassigned (at higher pay.. 1.5 times normal pay) to fly on to LGB, SAC and then back to Vegas. That… was a LONG day. The trip trade system at SW is excellent and will allow you to fly as much or as little as you want with the corresponding pay
At AA I found the schedule to be very “gentlemanly” and we flew (in those days) about 72-ish hours per month. If you flew transcons, that was your day. I honestly don’t recall ever doing 3 legs in one day in my 20 years at AA. Almost always thru a hub and then to the layover city. The trip trade system left a lot to be desired back then but it may be much better now… or not.
SWA is now run by accountant types, which is almost always a bad sign, IMO. They had the holiday meltdown because of the lack of technology to move crews and airplanes. To a degree that is also on their 737’s.
Good people at both airlines who work hard to try to make things better. I will say, I had a great time flying for SWA… just really good people….
Obviously the airplane and routes will play into your decision…. Ability to fly long haul at AA vs a little more commuter like style of flying at SWA.
When hired in 1989, AA was hiring 90 pilots per month so I moved up the seniority list quickly and was never furloughed, but it did happen to others. All the guys I was hired with are now in the retirement age so it could be a quicker upgrade than SWA.
SWA has not ever furloughed. During Covid, Southwest talked about having to furlough but instead offered us either early retirement with approx 75% pay for either 5 years or to age 65 whichever came first, OR…. A leave of absent of up to 5 years with a smaller pay/benefits package. Sorry dont recall what it was.
Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I would still pick AA.
Kap
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