Timeframe for an AA AIP
12-20-2022, 11:00 AM
#41
Speed Verified
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,126
Yeah but Isom’s goal is to delay as long as possible. The longer the company delays the more money they save. Think about it, more and more senior people retire everyday. When new pay rates eventually come it will be cheaper if it’s all delayed because a lot of the senior higher paid pilots will be already gone. Some bean counter somewhere probably has done the math and has a graph that shows how much money they save the longer they delay with the higher paid pilots gone.
Besides, the company has no reason to rush anything other than getting some PR. The airline still runs whether the pilots have a new contract or not and new hire pilot classes are still being filled.
Yes, everyone wants a huge QOL win and Delta’s new pay rates, but I don’t see either happening anytime soon.
Besides, the company has no reason to rush anything other than getting some PR. The airline still runs whether the pilots have a new contract or not and new hire pilot classes are still being filled.
Yes, everyone wants a huge QOL win and Delta’s new pay rates, but I don’t see either happening anytime soon.
12-20-2022, 11:10 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,766
I think classes are filled because there's an expectation of a contract that at least gets us within spitting distance of the others. The ULCCs are getting Alaska-like rates soon - without some sort of contract we'll not only be looking up at Delta/United/SWA, but up at *everyone*. And this will be happening right as our retirements go into overdrive. I think we'll have a staffing problem in that case, especially as the junior guys start jumping ship. And we still need to solve the issue of check airmen.
My guess is the union will cave on QOL and attach the previous AIP's work rules to Delta's rates and send it to a vote. We'll all scream and yell about it on here (including me) but our limp-dick pilot group will vote it in by 70+%.
My guess is the union will cave on QOL and attach the previous AIP's work rules to Delta's rates and send it to a vote. We'll all scream and yell about it on here (including me) but our limp-dick pilot group will vote it in by 70+%.
12-20-2022, 11:13 AM
#43
Speed Verified
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,126
I think classes are filled because there's an expectation of a contract that at least gets us within spitting distance of the others. The ULCCs are getting Alaska-like rates soon - without some sort of contract we'll not only be looking up at Delta/United/SWA, but up at *everyone*. And this will be happening right as our retirements go into overdrive. I think we'll have a staffing problem in that case, especially as the junior guys start jumping ship. And we still need to solve the issue of check airmen.
My guess is the union will cave on QOL and attach the previous AIP's work rules to Delta's rates and send it to a vote. We'll all scream and yell about it on here (including me) but our limp-dick pilot group will vote it in by 70+%.
My guess is the union will cave on QOL and attach the previous AIP's work rules to Delta's rates and send it to a vote. We'll all scream and yell about it on here (including me) but our limp-dick pilot group will vote it in by 70+%.
12-20-2022, 11:13 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 378
They make that claim because they don’t want to be compared against Delta’s margins when it’s time for their bonuses, because they see Delta as a different animal.
They also are saying things in the AIP will cost AA differently than Delta. He said they have an Atlanta centric operation making reassignment pay have a different cost.
Delta’s AIP is reported to cost 7B, if AA copies if word for word could cost them 6B could be 8B. They are different companies. He is not going to give APA the Delta AIP word for word if it will cost AA 20% more.
There gonna match the raises and squabble about the value of the other changes to total out at 7B. Both sides will lie about those cost changes but are gonna have to be honest enough to get a deal done.
If you want it word for word and it’s more expensive for AA your just gonna to vote no and watch Delta make 18 then 23% more than you, until AA pays down more debt, makes more money, or United announces a deal.
Delta generates 50B a year with 12k pilots and 400 RJs, AA generates 50B a year with 15k pilots and 600 RJs.
12-20-2022, 11:18 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,766
Right there with you man. I hope I'm wrong about our pilot group, but I think we have too many guys that have been kicked in the nuts for too long and just want to take the money and run.
12-20-2022, 12:05 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
Crazy times we live in …
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
12-20-2022, 12:20 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,752
Crazy times we live in …
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
12-20-2022, 12:54 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,547
Crazy times we live in …
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
This true?
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
This true?
12-20-2022, 01:03 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 305
Crazy times we live in …
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).
American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.
Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.
The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.
This true?
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