Timeframe for an AA AIP
12-17-2022, 01:38 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 110
I completely disagree.
Management doesn't want self-deprecating talk from us, they want us to think everything is great and that we're awesome. Ra Ra go team, KDA. Many in our management actually believe it too, they have no clue what's actually going on.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
Management doesn't want self-deprecating talk from us, they want us to think everything is great and that we're awesome. Ra Ra go team, KDA. Many in our management actually believe it too, they have no clue what's actually going on.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
Either way, we both agree that something needs to be done.
12-17-2022, 03:38 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,490
Just stating the facts. There is no way in hell I will vote yes for anything less than Delta agreement. I am not alone. Therefore no contract until 2025.
I am currently chasing down my 13 hrs. Of Holiday pay that was not in any pay statement. That’s $4200 shorted prior to taxes. Another wonderful fact being employed by this formally good airline. Chasing down pay that should have been paid. The frustrations never end. We actually have a pilot that will audit your pay for you. Costs you $10 a month. Why can a pilot get it correct yet a huge corporation with endless accountants and programmers get it so wrong? Because we suck.
I am currently chasing down my 13 hrs. Of Holiday pay that was not in any pay statement. That’s $4200 shorted prior to taxes. Another wonderful fact being employed by this formally good airline. Chasing down pay that should have been paid. The frustrations never end. We actually have a pilot that will audit your pay for you. Costs you $10 a month. Why can a pilot get it correct yet a huge corporation with endless accountants and programmers get it so wrong? Because we suck.
12-17-2022, 05:43 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 379
It’s really disheartening to read that people are paying someone to audit their pay for them. I’m at Envoy and my single biggest complaint is that I spend hours every month and numerous emails to pay comp every month to sort out pay. They get it wrong, in the companies favor of course, almost every single month. They misquote and misinterpret the contract to the support their position until they finally give in after numerous emails and me quoting the contract over and over. I’ve worked for numerous companies over my adult life and I’ve never had to work so hard on just my pay stub. I’ll be at AA soon and, in my mind, leaving Envoy meant no more pay roll fights. Reading this post was like a gut punch. You can’t even fix that with a fresh contract. It’s just the way they do business. If they can get away with it because you’re not auditing your pay, the company save money at your GREAT expense. :-(
12-17-2022, 05:47 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 538
It’s really disheartening to read that people are paying someone to audit their pay for them. I’m at Envoy and my single biggest complaint is that I spend hours every month and numerous emails to pay comp every month to sort out pay. They get it wrong, in the companies favor of course, almost every single month. They misquote and misinterpret the contract to the support their position until they finally give in after numerous emails and me quoting the contract over and over. I’ve worked for numerous companies over my adult life and I’ve never had to work so hard on just my pay stub. I’ll be at AA soon and, in my mind, leaving Envoy meant no more pay roll fights. Reading this post was like a gut punch. You can’t even fix that with a fresh contract. It’s just the way they do business. If they can get away with it because you’re not auditing your pay, the company save money at your GREAT expense. :-(
12-17-2022, 06:04 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,490
Living near an AA dominated base makes AA near top of the list for me. There are two others I’d rather be at and I will admit that I’m hoping that once I have AA on my resume, they give me a look. But there is a really big incentive to at least show up for day one of AA at the moment. Maybe I’ll be one of those referenced attrition numbers… collect the bonus and move on, lol.
12-17-2022, 07:38 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 289
It’s really disheartening to read that people are paying someone to audit their pay for them. I’m at Envoy and my single biggest complaint is that I spend hours every month and numerous emails to pay comp every month to sort out pay. They get it wrong, in the companies favor of course, almost every single month. They misquote and misinterpret the contract to the support their position until they finally give in after numerous emails and me quoting the contract over and over. I’ve worked for numerous companies over my adult life and I’ve never had to work so hard on just my pay stub. I’ll be at AA soon and, in my mind, leaving Envoy meant no more pay roll fights. Reading this post was like a gut punch. You can’t even fix that with a fresh contract. It’s just the way they do business. If they can get away with it because you’re not auditing your pay, the company save money at your GREAT expense. :-(
The most disheartening thing is that you will be at AA soon. Run.
6 1/2 hours to get a hotel because I refuse to be my own travel agent.
Midnight sims imposed on us when contract says no way.
volunteer seat fillers instead of check pilots.
Simulator training on Christmas and other holidays.
This week Isom and the new VP of flight have stated publicly that AA is not Delta. That means you will not be compensated as such.
I have had a good career but the entire time I have been here has been very frustrating. The one thing that has driven us down is management. They honestly believe things are just fine among our ranks. Once in the door they never fly the line again. They lose touch from reality or don’t care. Hetterman, Long, Price, Lavfold, Kudwa. All infamous managers that have never flown the line. Punches thrown, taxiing while on the cell phone, former head negotiator for APA, less than 3000 hrs flight time in a 32 year career at AA. I would add a certain senior manager that was recently escorted out of the building but I can’t verify yet. It happened this last week.
12-20-2022, 09:34 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,171
Unless something changed or was said recently, there isn’t a link because that’s not what was said.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
12-20-2022, 10:15 AM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 90
Unless something changed or was said recently, there isn’t a link because that’s not what was said.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
And hopefully 50+1 of the pilot group
12-20-2022, 10:41 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 373
Unless something changed or was said recently, there isn’t a link because that’s not what was said.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
Isom tap danced around the topic of the Delta AIP at one of the company propaganda events. Then a “Senior Vice President of Flight Operations and IOC” (translation: his opinion doesn’t really matter, and he’s a known pilot hater) supposedly told some pilots at that FAA-mandated industry-wide “be professional” class that the Delta AIP is lucrative for AA pilots but not to expect a penny more. What would you expect them to say?
Anyone who thinks Isom will offer anything beyond an exact match of Delta rates and Delta rates only is delusional. He’ll ask for concessions and provide essentially zero QoL gains. He’ll release that proposal directly to the pilots and media, attempting to go around APA, with hollow threats of parking widebodies (that’s a sure way for him to get fired) and a deadline to approve it or it’s gone. It’s directly from his union busting playbook.
It’s up to the APA BoD/NC to get QoL work rule improvements, and the membership to vote it down if it’s not at least to the level of the Delta AIP.
Yeah but Isom’s goal is to delay as long as possible. The longer the company delays the more money they save. Think about it, more and more senior people retire everyday. When new pay rates eventually come it will be cheaper if it’s all delayed because a lot of the senior higher paid pilots will be already gone. Some bean counter somewhere probably has done the math and has a graph that shows how much money they save the longer they delay with the higher paid pilots gone.
Besides, the company has no reason to rush anything other than getting some PR. The airline still runs whether the pilots have a new contract or not and new hire pilot classes are still being filled.
Yes, everyone wants a huge QOL win and Delta’s new pay rates, but I don’t see either happening anytime soon.
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