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Old 04-22-2023, 12:58 PM
  #2161  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude
I disagree. It takes just as many pilots to staff an RJ at a regional as it does mainline. Moving the RJs to mainline with a group 1 rate doesn’t change how many pilots you need. It just increases the overall cost of flying them and that is why it won’t happen. The cost of flying anRJ is a lot more than just pilot pay. It’s also benefits and hotel expenses and not just for pilots, but the FAs as well as mechanics and dispatchers, even if you can keep ground services separate.

Even though retirements tick up for a few years soon, the debacle that the airlines created by not using the money they took to keep pilots hired, trained and current and all the early retirements handed out will be more than caught up then. All the new programs to get more people flying again as well as better pay bringing people into/back to flying will as well. The supply will more than catch up with the demand before too long.
Respectfully, you missed the point. By bringing RJs on board as a part of mainline solves two problems.

There is a shortage of regional CA, as the mainlines are hiring them away rapidly. Being a part of the mainline means they get a seniority number. Spots created by the mainline for RJ CA will create more hours for the FO on the RJs to fly, rather than sitting at home. Thus, a greater number will ready to become CA more quickly on the RJs.

Secondly, this will help create more RJ FO openings to hire into.

These both will help all the spots to better coordinate together, just like narrow body CA create an ample pool on the seniority list to fill wide body CA.
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Old 04-22-2023, 05:01 PM
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So yea, AA is hiring. And for now, into the 737 and Airbus. Maybe into the E175 soon if the Internet has its way.
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Old 04-22-2023, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
Respectfully, you missed the point. By bringing RJs on board as a part of mainline solves two problems.
It may solve some significant problems but AA will continue to focus on hiring as many qualified pilots as possible on the 737 and 320 for the next few years and once all the qualified candidates are gone they could staple the 3 WO’s to the bottom of the mainline list and hire fresh CFI’s to fill 175 slots while retiring all the 50 seaters. They could replace the 175’s with anything really because scope is gone and attrition is now gone. But that’s probably years away. It’s smart to keep their regional pilots in place and maybe staple them to the bottom of the mainline list further down the road if their three regionals dry up and more importantly their mainline hiring pool dries up.

If they stapled the WO’s to the bottom today the mainline hiring pool would dry up over night. That’s more important anyways than the regionals they control and the current issues they’re having with attrition.
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Old 04-22-2023, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
It may solve some significant problems but AA will continue to focus on hiring as many qualified pilots as possible on the 737 and 320 for the next few years and once all the qualified candidates are gone they could staple the 3 WO’s to the bottom of the mainline list and hire fresh CFI’s to fill 175 slots while retiring all the 50 seaters. They could replace the 175’s with anything really because scope is gone and attrition is now gone. But that’s probably years away. It’s smart to keep their regional pilots in place and maybe staple them to the bottom of the mainline list further down the road if their three regionals dry up and more importantly their mainline hiring pool dries up.

If they stapled the WO’s to the bottom today the mainline hiring pool would dry up over night. That’s more important anyways than the regionals they control and the current issues they’re having with attrition.
This right here. The ramifications of bringing in the WOs while the other two don't bring regional feeds in house are dire.
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Old 04-22-2023, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
Respectfully, you missed the point. By bringing RJs on board as a part of mainline solves two problems.

There is a shortage of regional CA, as the mainlines are hiring them away rapidly. Being a part of the mainline means they get a seniority number. Spots created by the mainline for RJ CA will create more hours for the FO on the RJs to fly, rather than sitting at home. Thus, a greater number will ready to become CA more quickly on the RJs.

Secondly, this will help create more RJ FO openings to hire into.

These both will help all the spots to better coordinate together, just like narrow body CA create an ample pool on the seniority list to fill wide body CA.
Well, respectfully, we’ll have to just disagree. Believe me, it’s not that I’m against it, I just don’t think your logic works. There won’t be anymore openings or hours.
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Old 04-22-2023, 08:01 PM
  #2166  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude
Well, respectfully, we’ll have to just disagree. Believe me, it’s not that I’m against it, I just don’t think your logic works. There won’t be anymore openings or hours.
If you knew how much AA is struggling to staff their regionals and what extraordinary measures are being taken to fix this, you would start to think differently.

If you knew how much the failing regionals are costing AA right now with their decreased feed, and what it is projected to be by the end of the summer, you would certainly think differently.

Your points are valid, but you seem to be missing a great deal of information. The cost to AA right now for the regional staffing shortage is astronomical. AA's entire plan is to build the most robust domestic network and then use that to grow the international market. The domestic market is the linchpin to the whole strategy. AA needs their regionals to be nearly twice the size that they are right now to accomplish this, not shrinking by the day.

Remember, regional passengers out of small town America are who fill the mainline seats going to high priced destinations both on mainline AA metal and codeshare flights.
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Old 04-22-2023, 09:55 PM
  #2167  
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Originally Posted by DoNoHarm
If you knew how much AA is struggling to staff their regionals and what extraordinary measures are being taken to fix this, you would start to think differently.

If you knew how much the failing regionals are costing AA right now with their decreased feed, and what it is projected to be by the end of the summer, you would certainly think differently.

Your points are valid, but you seem to be missing a great deal of information. The cost to AA right now for the regional staffing shortage is astronomical. AA's entire plan is to build the most robust domestic network and then use that to grow the international market. The domestic market is the linchpin to the whole strategy. AA needs their regionals to be nearly twice the size that they are right now to accomplish this, not shrinking by the day.

Remember, regional passengers out of small town America are who fill the mainline seats going to high priced destinations both on mainline AA metal and codeshare flights.
DAL and UAL are replacing regional flying with NB flying with less frequency. AA will have to do the same. They don’t need to double anything involving regional flying. GMAFB with that small town bull$hit.
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Old 04-22-2023, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
DAL and UAL are replacing regional flying with NB flying with less frequency. AA will have to do the same. They don’t need to double anything involving regional flying. GMAFB with that small town bull$hit.
What exactly are you saying? Are you implying that people from smaller cities do not go on vacation or to Europe/Asia?
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Old 04-22-2023, 10:05 PM
  #2169  
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Originally Posted by WhyIFly
What exactly are you saying? Are you implying that people from smaller cities do not go on vacation or to Europe/Asia?
I’m telling you NB’s flown by mainline American pilots can replace the flying. You could send a 73 once or twice a day. Less fuel burn, more available seats compared to clapped out 50 seaters.

I’m saying this transition is already happening at DAL and UAL.
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Old 04-22-2023, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
DAL and UAL are replacing regional flying with NB flying with less frequency. AA will have to do the same. They don’t need to double anything involving regional flying. GMAFB with that small town bull$hit.
I think you misunderstood what I said, so I will say it again and slower this time...

AA's strategy right now (right or wrong) requires a great deal of regional lift. It is the master plan that Isom and Vasu have come up with. It doesn't matter who flys those airplanes (mainline or regional pilots), but there need to be hundreds of smaller airplanes flying around to smaller cities that connect those passengers to the bigger markets. Sure, some of that can be done on 319's, but you can't send 6 or 7 319's per day from Kansas City to Charlotte. That is what AA wants to do...have a lot of frequency from smaller cities to connect passengers to their network.

Yes, DAL and UAL are replacing SOME regional flying with NB flying, and DAL already has its own regional airplanes (A220s).

But AA wants to have the largest and most robust domestic airline. To realistically accomplish this, AA needs to start bringing 175s in house and flying them with mainline pilots. This will end the constant attrition that AA currently has with pilots flying RJs. In addition, I would love it if AA bought some 220s (or not have gotten rid on the 190s), but that is not likely to happen.

OR... AA can reverse it's strategy and just build an incomplete domestic network that lacks frequency and is challenging to connect many cities like what UAL currently has.
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