Future jobs vs current jobs
07-27-2018, 04:03 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,316
Future jobs vs current jobs
I’m trying to wrap my brain around the APA’s mentality of restricting pilots already on property to protect (or cause if you will) more future jobs. Examples include our inability to double dip after having a trip bought, IMAX, not being allowed to fly during vacation, etc. what is the purpose of this while we are hiring 6 to 900 a year? I completely get it if we aren’t hiring or have furloughed pilots.
Guys here preach about getting W2’s like SWA and DAL, but I don’t think we can earn like SWA with this mentality. And with my limited understanding of Delta’s “rolling thunder”, I don’t think that would fly here either. Maybe that’s why most here just care about pay rates, they don’t understand the mechanisms by which other airline pilots bolster their income...it’s not just profit sharing guys.
Also, we lose leverage by already restricting ourselves. We can’t exactly reduce our level of flying when it’s already low.
What am I missing? Thoughts?
Guys here preach about getting W2’s like SWA and DAL, but I don’t think we can earn like SWA with this mentality. And with my limited understanding of Delta’s “rolling thunder”, I don’t think that would fly here either. Maybe that’s why most here just care about pay rates, they don’t understand the mechanisms by which other airline pilots bolster their income...it’s not just profit sharing guys.
Also, we lose leverage by already restricting ourselves. We can’t exactly reduce our level of flying when it’s already low.
What am I missing? Thoughts?
07-27-2018, 04:30 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
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07-27-2018, 04:40 PM
#5
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Yeah, and I think it needs to change, I’m relatively new to the industry and watching friends at other airlines, starting to realize how much this hampers us. I’m not sure the masses realize this as they say “let’s just get Delta’s contract”.
07-27-2018, 05:44 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
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I like the way our contract is written. Everything is chugging along good right now but what about during the next downturn? If we ever furlough again I’m going to guess the most junior guy not furloughed is going to be glad our contract requires more pilots.
I get the other side of the argument. But don’t be fooled, most of those DL/SW guys who are making it rain are spending a lot of days at work. So many of our guys aren’t about that life.
I’ll gladly go fly 15-16 days a month for 80-90 credit hours.
07-27-2018, 05:48 PM
#7
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
I’m sorry if you want to fly fly. Let some one else have their trip bought and stay home and you can fly. There’s many here who would love their trips bought and probably are more senior. Why should you get to double dip when in reality someone seniors out flying who might have preferred their trip bought and they get to stay at home.
Vacation is needed. Sorry again I’ll disagree. If you don’t want it float it. APA allows you to do that. Fly your ass off and get paid in the beginning of the next year. Vacation hasn’t been like it was until recently for many of the big three. So the fact a second year pilot gets 3 weeks let’s not throw that away and try to fly on the days we earned off.
This why can we do it while we are hiring arguement is rather weak too. See we don’t always hire and might not. So let’s not start bad habits and then require fewer pilots. Delta making more money has nothing to do with any of the above. If you want both delta and southwest are hiring. Problem is we haven’t had s section 6 in decades. Let’s get to that before you offer up rather weak suggestions. More pilots under you is indeed a great thing. Let’s not encourage less so you can apparently endulge is further greed as apparently it’s hard to live off what we make?
Vacation is needed. Sorry again I’ll disagree. If you don’t want it float it. APA allows you to do that. Fly your ass off and get paid in the beginning of the next year. Vacation hasn’t been like it was until recently for many of the big three. So the fact a second year pilot gets 3 weeks let’s not throw that away and try to fly on the days we earned off.
This why can we do it while we are hiring arguement is rather weak too. See we don’t always hire and might not. So let’s not start bad habits and then require fewer pilots. Delta making more money has nothing to do with any of the above. If you want both delta and southwest are hiring. Problem is we haven’t had s section 6 in decades. Let’s get to that before you offer up rather weak suggestions. More pilots under you is indeed a great thing. Let’s not encourage less so you can apparently endulge is further greed as apparently it’s hard to live off what we make?
07-27-2018, 05:48 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 398
It's a balancing act
How many jobs is it ok to trade in for the ability to fly to FAR, double dip, etc.?
And... How many in each category? How many FO's should remain FO's vs. upgrading? How many Group 2 pilots should remain Group 2 rather than move to Group 4?
10%?, 20%?
More?
fwiw... My personal opinion is that the company's ability to schedule the pilot should be limited to something like the traditinal 75-78 hour range, and individual pilots should be able to pick up more as desired - at Premium rates only.
Exactly how and through what mechanisms needs a thorough "best practices" review and study and NIH needs a swift kick in the 'nads.
Figure the odds...
How many jobs is it ok to trade in for the ability to fly to FAR, double dip, etc.?
And... How many in each category? How many FO's should remain FO's vs. upgrading? How many Group 2 pilots should remain Group 2 rather than move to Group 4?
10%?, 20%?
More?
fwiw... My personal opinion is that the company's ability to schedule the pilot should be limited to something like the traditinal 75-78 hour range, and individual pilots should be able to pick up more as desired - at Premium rates only.
Exactly how and through what mechanisms needs a thorough "best practices" review and study and NIH needs a swift kick in the 'nads.
Figure the odds...
07-27-2018, 07:16 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,316
I’m sorry if you want to fly fly. Let some one else have their trip bought and stay home and you can fly. There’s many here who would love their trips bought and probably are more senior. Why should you get to double dip when in reality someone seniors out flying who might have preferred their trip bought and they get to stay at home.
Vacation is needed. Sorry again I’ll disagree. If you don’t want it float it. APA allows you to do that. Fly your ass off and get paid in the beginning of the next year. Vacation hasn’t been like it was until recently for many of the big three. So the fact a second year pilot gets 3 weeks let’s not throw that away and try to fly on the days we earned off.
This why can we do it while we are hiring arguement is rather weak too. See we don’t always hire and might not. So let’s not start bad habits and then require fewer pilots. Delta making more money has nothing to do with any of the above. If you want both delta and southwest are hiring. Problem is we haven’t had s section 6 in decades. Let’s get to that before you offer up rather weak suggestions. More pilots under you is indeed a great thing. Let’s not encourage less so you can apparently endulge is further greed as apparently it’s hard to live off what we make?
Vacation is needed. Sorry again I’ll disagree. If you don’t want it float it. APA allows you to do that. Fly your ass off and get paid in the beginning of the next year. Vacation hasn’t been like it was until recently for many of the big three. So the fact a second year pilot gets 3 weeks let’s not throw that away and try to fly on the days we earned off.
This why can we do it while we are hiring arguement is rather weak too. See we don’t always hire and might not. So let’s not start bad habits and then require fewer pilots. Delta making more money has nothing to do with any of the above. If you want both delta and southwest are hiring. Problem is we haven’t had s section 6 in decades. Let’s get to that before you offer up rather weak suggestions. More pilots under you is indeed a great thing. Let’s not encourage less so you can apparently endulge is further greed as apparently it’s hard to live off what we make?
07-27-2018, 07:45 PM
#10
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Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
Fuel prices go crazy. We park planes or something happens that we don’t control we don’t need to wish we had pilots. Let alone during a downturn pilots still employed doing what you proposed then would also be contractual and those still on property make money and double dip etc while others have nothing....
This question amazes me it was even brought up..... Being new to 121 or not. Shouldn’t exactly be shocking why those all are very bad things to want to imply we should allow and keep us behind Delta.... Bankruptcy contracts and out dated contracts are why we are far behind, along with APAs lack of negotiating ever for a leading contract.
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