Two-percent

The top PSA flo-thrus who flowed early 2014 were some of the biggest dopes I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. There is definitely a reason why they stayed at PSA for 16 yrs. The very top PSA flo was a fool and definitely contributed to the poor reputation of PSA. He was allowed to continue after several missteps, and barely made it thru training. Off-street folks did not get the same consideration. Embarrassing

Saabs

Don't believe PSA has a poor reputation for their flows at all

mainlineAF

You would be wrong. The first PSA guys, mainly the check airmen, had a very bad rap. Most were great. But a disproportionate amount of them were right seat captains to the fullest. They just couldn't stand being an FO for the young 190 captains. They've since moved on to the bus.

aa73

Hey bud!

I agree that it's an unnecessary PA. Having said that - now that I am making them on my flights... it's a piece of cake and takes all of 3.5 seconds! (But then again I stick to the script and use the headset.)

Saabs

I'm sure there are bad apples but I don't think PSA flows for the most part have a bad reputation.

mainlineAF

Stop going against what I say just to do it 🏽*

Saabs

Your emojis never work FYI. You must be in Boston or LGA

drinksonme

Sure, I'll address it. A disciplined atmosphere is not always the best practices. Following an SOP to the letter is good philosophy, but if the SOP is outdated it may run interference with a safe flight/operation

I'll just throw one out there. Why are the SOP's so Captain centric? Why does it say the CA should do all the departure and arrival briefings, even when they are not the flying pilot? Here's the issue, some CA's actually don't apply the should, and delegate the briefing to the pilot flying.....probably 90%, which is a good thing, but others don't.

Some CA's like to hear themselves talk. In this case, when they actually brief all the departures and arrivals it sets up a failure of the share mental model. It's also creates confusion. 8 trips go by and the pilot flying briefs their legs, then suddenly CA America(n) shows up and does all the briefings. It minimizes the FO's abilities, creates confusion, and reduces the share mental model. Now the FO's are tasked with having to wait and see if they should brief or not. If not, now it all becomes about the CA and when they are ready to brief.

So this SOP, creates confusion from the get go. And if put into practice creates a breakdown in communication and the flow of operations, regardless of what reasoning is behind it. It's an old CA's rule all SOP. Its not about CA Authority, but more about CA Control

Here's a few more:

Boarding without the flight crew or rated pilots assigned to preflight, on the plane. Is this really a good idea. This is SOP outside the flight manual but still an SOP to meet an on time departure. Nothing better then finding a plane full of passengers and flight attendants, with no one on the flight deck. Ops calls some to come start the APU and then away they go. So the crew shows up with APU running, packs running, all while no one is there in the event things start to fail. Go beyond and extreme, how bout of fire in the APU.....yeah that will be a fun one at the gate. I am sure the FA's can handle an evacuation, but who's going to call crash fire rescue even. It will be the SOP till it's not, after something happens with no one on the flight deck.

CA's only having to brief the lead or #1. All well and good, except half the time most of us cant recognize each other cause we don't all brief each other. With the splitting of crews this is a huge issue. I can't tell you what half the FA's look like cause we never see them. Beyond that, one person, the lead, passes along all the briefing info to the rest of the FA's (we hope) AND the game of telephone comes to mind when the message is delivered. It should be a requirement that all crew members have to meet each other and a shared mental model communicated to the whole crew.

Just a few

Saabs

I've heard that captains brief the FO's even on the FO's leg but I've yet to see it. Starting to think someone made that up? It doesn't make sense anyhow

aa73

Ok - I can tell you this. I always tell the FO, hey, it's your leg, it's your brief. Period. I also tell the FO, if it's your leg, it's your PA and your route check. You don't like the ride, ask for a different altitude. You don't like the arrival fuel, speak up - I'll most likely change it to both our liking. Basically, on your leg you run the show as if you were the captain (even though we both know I am ultimately in charge.) That makes for a safer cockpit.

In other words... I set the type of tone that encourages the FO to think like a captain. And that's how it was when I was an FO too.

But to call these SOPs "dangerous??" That's a stretch. Outdated, maybe some. But that's all it is. And I believe all airlines have a couple of items that could be considered outdated too.

Our SOPs work well, as evidenced by our safety record.