flydc

You should be on the line by then. The CPO will give you the days off, if you're unable to get them off with PBS.

450knotOffice

No matter who gets through the door, they still have to pass training, then IOE, then make it through their probationary year. Not all do. Every airline has its misfits, including AA. Those misfits managed to slip past AA's very own interview process, and they've also come from every other group of pilots that makes up this airline's seniority list.

Yes, it definitely makes it tougher these days to land a job with AA if you're non-military, but it's not impossible. I've met plenty of young newhires from the civilian world who were from outside the flow.

Keep updating your APP at least every few weeks.

LuckyNow

There was a flowback that many of our guys utilized after 9/11 and kept the bills paid. There are a certain number of flows that got an arbitrated award because of that. I don't know all the specifics, but there are definitely some guys here hired before 9/11 that flowed back. Someone else could likely elaborate, but it's not a total free lunch.

Buzzlightyear

Niccolau prescribed a remedy as part of an arbitration award for 824 Eagle pilots that AA had harmed . That group is winding down soon. Going forward at Envoy the company gave the union a continued flow in return for transferring aircraft at that airline to AA. AA then cut envoy in half post bankruptcy and gave those aircraft to various regionals.

The arbitration award didn't require an interview and apparently the company didn't want one when that negotiation took place.

jacjetlag

"It's needs to change, but it won't till the cultural change blockers retire...."


+++++

Fair enough.

I'll retire, then you get to be the "cultural change blocker". Good luck with that.

Can I go shop for a retirement boat now?

Laker24

That's almost unbelievable that some don't make it through training. AA training is shockingly easy.

Dirty Sanchez

There is no quality control for the flows. No minimum qualifications have to be met except having seniority at a regional. There is a reason some (not all) have been stuck at regionals for 15+ years. No college, criminal record, busted checkrides, etc. Sure some QOL and stayed by choice.

Most are good people, but it shouldn't take 5 extra sims and 3 rounds of IOE to get someone through training.

It's unfortunate they are taking up almost all of the non-military newhire spots. Most flows come pre-loaded with entitlement issues or negativity towards the company from day 1.

SheepDogg

Don't you mean "retirement yacht"? We just got a raise.

LuckyNow

I'd genuinely like to know where you weathered the lost decade? Where'd you end up after the MOAB? Because this statement reeks of the complete lack of being effected by it in the airlines, or someone who wasn't even here. I'll await your reply.

RyanP

Apparently they never properly vetted some of the USAir pilots either who managed to become AA pilots. Clearly some slipped through without ever attaining College degrees. "New hirers"? "Just fines"? "Cause of"?

You are judging the Flow pilots not being vetted? Lol.

The Envoy flow throughs over the past year have between 14-20+ years of 121 experience flying AA passengers, most of which has been as a Captain using the same systems, standards and many of the same procedures that AA uses. They have been flying AA passengers out of the same major AA hubs, and operating more legs per day out of those hubs for well over a decade. Not to mention doing it with AA flow back pilots in our left seats for years. Is that not proper enough vetting for you?

Most problem cases at Envoy that slip through the cracks are weeded out on their first year probationary periods anyway. Then there is another chance to get the rare long time problem children during the AA probationary period since they are no longer under ALPA protection at Envoy. Even when the flow through time starts to drop in the future, the flows will still put in 6-7 years of time in with the company where they are monitored, evaluated and checked annually. The future groups after the (protected pilot flows) will not be eligible to flow with any disciplinary letters in their files. Hiring people this way, at least AA knows everything about the pilot and has detailed records of their behavior before they get there. They also have control of the training and hiring standards that Envoy uses. Off the street they are hiring a complete unknown based off nothing but a resume and a basic background check.

I suppose hiring certain "select" groups of people with very low time and/or ZERO pt 121 time is still preferred by some though.