Average days off @ AA
04-30-2017, 02:38 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 122
Thanks, that is actually better than I thought. I am (hoping) with the larger number of retirements starting in 2018 that I can get back to DFW sooner than current, but still expecting a commute for a bit. 1000 guys gone over 2017-2018 "should" speed up the movement to DFW a bit, I hope.
Is it extremely difficult to drop trips at AA? "Denied due to staffing limitations"?
Is it extremely difficult to drop trips at AA? "Denied due to staffing limitations"?
04-30-2017, 04:19 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
Dropping
I'm a low line holder. Trading trips is hit or miss. We have 2 official systems to trade. Trip Trade System (TTS) is a seniority based system that runs twice a day with ballots. It's very hard to get successful trades if you're trying to trade down (i.e. a 4 day for a 3 day). It will not execute your drop or trade if it adds to open time. It's there to appease the senior who want the seniority based system. It's sucks.
Trip Trade with Open Time (TTOT) is the first come, first serve system that is based off reserve coverage. It colors trips redder, red, and green. You can straight drop green trips. You can trade a red trip for a redder trip. The company owns the color system and our union literally has no idea how they calculate it. That said, I've had pretty good luck trading away trips that I don't want to fly (redeyes).
There's also a few commercial products such as Lite Sabre that facilitate person-person trading. Lastly, if you don't wanna fly the trip, use the last option Trip Trade with Sick Time (TTST).
While it's overly complicated to drop a trip, I've actually had pretty good luck getting a nice schedule while starting out with a crappy one. Hopefully, our union will make some improvements to our flexibility to trade.
Trip Trade with Open Time (TTOT) is the first come, first serve system that is based off reserve coverage. It colors trips redder, red, and green. You can straight drop green trips. You can trade a red trip for a redder trip. The company owns the color system and our union literally has no idea how they calculate it. That said, I've had pretty good luck trading away trips that I don't want to fly (redeyes).
There's also a few commercial products such as Lite Sabre that facilitate person-person trading. Lastly, if you don't wanna fly the trip, use the last option Trip Trade with Sick Time (TTST).
While it's overly complicated to drop a trip, I've actually had pretty good luck getting a nice schedule while starting out with a crappy one. Hopefully, our union will make some improvements to our flexibility to trade.
04-30-2017, 04:22 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
I'm a low line holder. Trading trips is hit or miss. We have 2 official systems to trade. Trip Trade System (TTS) is a seniority based system that runs twice a day with ballots. It's very hard to get successful trades if you're trying to trade down (i.e. a 4 day for a 3 day). It will not execute your drop or trade if it adds to open time. It's there to appease the senior who want the seniority based system. It's sucks.
Trip Trade with Open Time (TTOT) is the first come, first serve system that is based off reserve coverage. It colors trips redder, red, and green. You can straight drop green trips. You can trade a red trip for a redder trip. The company owns the color system and our union literally has no idea how they calculate it. That said, I've had pretty good luck trading away trips that I don't want to fly (redeyes).
There's also a few commercial products such as Lite Sabre that facilitate person-person trading. Lastly, if you don't wanna fly the trip, use the last option Trip Trade with Sick Time (TTST).
While it's overly complicated to drop a trip, I've actually had pretty good luck getting a nice schedule while starting out with a crappy one. Hopefully, our union will make some improvements to our flexibility to trade.
Trip Trade with Open Time (TTOT) is the first come, first serve system that is based off reserve coverage. It colors trips redder, red, and green. You can straight drop green trips. You can trade a red trip for a redder trip. The company owns the color system and our union literally has no idea how they calculate it. That said, I've had pretty good luck trading away trips that I don't want to fly (redeyes).
There's also a few commercial products such as Lite Sabre that facilitate person-person trading. Lastly, if you don't wanna fly the trip, use the last option Trip Trade with Sick Time (TTST).
While it's overly complicated to drop a trip, I've actually had pretty good luck getting a nice schedule while starting out with a crappy one. Hopefully, our union will make some improvements to our flexibility to trade.
Agreed. I forgot to add avoid layovers greater than 24 hours to my PBS for May so I ended up with 3 slash trips. Been able to trade 2 of them so far. I can normally get out of all the bae trips.
04-30-2017, 04:23 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,482
You can always post trips for others to pick up. 'Below the line' on the TTOT system is a pilot trying to get rid of a trip.
If you have great trips they'll probably get picked up. If you have lousy trips they probably won't get picked up.
If you have great trips they'll probably get picked up. If you have lousy trips they probably won't get picked up.
04-30-2017, 05:16 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 108
What is a slash trip?
We also have the similar TTOT system on the Envoy side. Everything is usually redder than the reddest red and pretty much everything is denied due to staffing, even when it makes no sense and actually benefits them. Straight 4 day for another 4 day on the same scheduled days are usually approved, but that is about it. So you can change show times but not days usually.
Are trips picked up below the line straight pay, no premium? I have never had any success with below the line at Envoy since regular open time pays a premium 150-200%, so nobody will ever pick up below the line trips from you.
Is there any premium for Open Time at AA?
We also have the similar TTOT system on the Envoy side. Everything is usually redder than the reddest red and pretty much everything is denied due to staffing, even when it makes no sense and actually benefits them. Straight 4 day for another 4 day on the same scheduled days are usually approved, but that is about it. So you can change show times but not days usually.
Are trips picked up below the line straight pay, no premium? I have never had any success with below the line at Envoy since regular open time pays a premium 150-200%, so nobody will ever pick up below the line trips from you.
Is there any premium for Open Time at AA?
Last edited by Regionalsuck; 04-30-2017 at 05:28 PM.
04-30-2017, 06:05 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
No, we don't get 150-200% for open time. Our staffing problem isn't as bad as yours at Envoy.
As far a picking up below the line, I post every trip I have and have yet to have anyone pick up. I have picked up others trip below the line numerous times to help them out.
Slash trips are usually 3 day trips with 2 duty periods or 4 day trips with 3 duty periods. Since we only have average duty period, those trips pay less than normal trips where duty periods equal days.
As far a picking up below the line, I post every trip I have and have yet to have anyone pick up. I have picked up others trip below the line numerous times to help them out.
Slash trips are usually 3 day trips with 2 duty periods or 4 day trips with 3 duty periods. Since we only have average duty period, those trips pay less than normal trips where duty periods equal days.
04-30-2017, 06:10 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Average days off @ AA
What is a slash trip?
We also have the similar TTOT system on the Envoy side. Everything is usually redder than the reddest red and pretty much everything is denied due to staffing, even when it makes no sense and actually benefits them. Straight 4 day for another 4 day on the same scheduled days are usually approved, but that is about it. So you can change show times but not days usually.
Are trips picked up below the line straight pay, no premium? I have never had any success with below the line at Envoy since regular open time pays a premium 150-200%, so nobody will ever pick up below the line trips from you.
Is there any premium for Open Time at AA?
We also have the similar TTOT system on the Envoy side. Everything is usually redder than the reddest red and pretty much everything is denied due to staffing, even when it makes no sense and actually benefits them. Straight 4 day for another 4 day on the same scheduled days are usually approved, but that is about it. So you can change show times but not days usually.
Are trips picked up below the line straight pay, no premium? I have never had any success with below the line at Envoy since regular open time pays a premium 150-200%, so nobody will ever pick up below the line trips from you.
Is there any premium for Open Time at AA?
Slash trip has less duty periods than calendar days. So a 3 day trip with 2 duty periods is a "slash" trip. If you leave late on day one and get back early day 3 those are the worst paying trips bc the 3.5:1 trip rig doesn't really help that much.
Straight pay for all pick ups. Premium is only designated by the company for short-staffing trips. They are few and far between in the categories that have transitioned to PBS.
Edit: dude above beat me to it.
04-30-2017, 06:11 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B737
Posts: 1,204
I've been a junior line holder for almost 2 years now. Pretty typical month is 15 days off with about 78 hours of pay. After trading around, I can usually improve a bit and get 15-16 days off with 80+ hours of pay.
04-30-2017, 06:47 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,223
Your wife makes more than enough for you two to live very comfortably. Your income doesn't even pay the taxes on her income.
Presently you work 5-7 days a month on reserve. You will not do that at AA on a narrowbody. I haven't looked at the widebodies but they are running with leaner reserves almost every bid it seems like. It will take a very long time to hold DFW 777/787.
Stay where you are. Enjoy the time at home. Use the job for what it is to you - a hobby. I have previously worked blocks and am back to reserve just because I can't take working 70+ a month. I think it would kill me to do more than a month of that.
SWA will give you more hard days off but you'll be working every one of your reserve days. Also their trips are pretty tough. It's a regional type schedule.
Presently you work 5-7 days a month on reserve. You will not do that at AA on a narrowbody. I haven't looked at the widebodies but they are running with leaner reserves almost every bid it seems like. It will take a very long time to hold DFW 777/787.
Stay where you are. Enjoy the time at home. Use the job for what it is to you - a hobby. I have previously worked blocks and am back to reserve just because I can't take working 70+ a month. I think it would kill me to do more than a month of that.
SWA will give you more hard days off but you'll be working every one of your reserve days. Also their trips are pretty tough. It's a regional type schedule.
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