Allegiant Air
11-13-2015, 07:30 AM
#621
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 757/767 First Officer
Posts: 365
NBC, Wall Street Journal, Good Morning America, that place can't seem to stay off the news wires! Years of REALLY bad management and cutting corners, all out war with its pilots. Chickens are finally coming home to roost. At least the media is paying attention, the FAA isn't.
11-13-2015, 07:38 AM
#622
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 351
Airline management for years has been trying to erode and downright eliminate PIC authority. Captains have to make decisions based on the information available and sometimes in a split second. The desk monkeys in management have all weekend to go through all the manuals, call the FAA, call P&W/GE, call Boeing/Airbus, or whoever and then play Monday morning quarterback. I don't think Allegiant wants this in front of a jury.
11-13-2015, 07:59 AM
#623
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: CRJ Left
Posts: 265
I truly hope this guy gets some justice on this one. I think everyone here would, or should make the exact same decision he did. I agree with a poster above, Allegiant is probably going to settle this quickly. Also, the FAA is doing a poor job on the their part. If this gets to a court room though, maybe that would generate enough exposure to put a fire up the Feds a$$.
11-13-2015, 08:57 AM
#624
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 88 Gunner
Posts: 516
NBC, Wall Street Journal, Good Morning America, that place can't seem to stay off the news wires! Years of REALLY bad management and cutting corners, all out war with its pilots. Chickens are finally coming home to roost. At least the media is paying attention, the FAA isn't.
11-13-2015, 09:26 AM
#625
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: FO
Posts: 88
And to think, we could end all the labor troubles overnight if we could just find a way to herd the 18,000 or so regional pilots/cats into simply not showing up for work the next day. Doubt they'd try to prosecute them (would be a decades long process).
In short, a large sampling of humans/animals will ALWAYS act in what they perceive to be their best interest, with just a few outliers willing to do what they perceive to be best for the group.
We can at least be happy that Allegiant has a group of pilots that have concluded that what's best for themselves AND the group, coincide.
Can't fight Darwin guys.
11-13-2015, 09:30 AM
#626
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,492
I certainly hope you guys get your issues settled with management. It's sad to see the abuse by incompetent managers go unchecked in this business. Too many lives are at stake for screw ups to be running an airline. It's a testament to your professionalism that no tragedies have occurred.
No one should go to work for an airline that will fire you for a safety decision. Even if the evac was unwarranted after the fact the worst that should have been done was a review by flight standards to go over the evac criteria. But erring on the side of caution should never be punished.
Unfortunately, the FARs may not help this captain. Being an at will employee is difficult to overcome when you are terminated. The FAA will take certificate action against a crew even if the company has told the crew their actions are legal, when, in fact, they have committed a violation. The company can self disclose for immunity but the crew is still hung. That has happened before. The FAA is of no help. Hopefully your union can do something but it's hard without a contract and formal language.
To be clear, I am not implying that the captain did anything wrong. I'm just pointing out that the FARs and the Feds may be of little help. His best ally right now is the negative press this issue is getting. Hopefully he will be hired soon at a better airline. At the very least he has one hell of a TMAAT answer.
No one should go to work for an airline that will fire you for a safety decision. Even if the evac was unwarranted after the fact the worst that should have been done was a review by flight standards to go over the evac criteria. But erring on the side of caution should never be punished.
Unfortunately, the FARs may not help this captain. Being an at will employee is difficult to overcome when you are terminated. The FAA will take certificate action against a crew even if the company has told the crew their actions are legal, when, in fact, they have committed a violation. The company can self disclose for immunity but the crew is still hung. That has happened before. The FAA is of no help. Hopefully your union can do something but it's hard without a contract and formal language.
To be clear, I am not implying that the captain did anything wrong. I'm just pointing out that the FARs and the Feds may be of little help. His best ally right now is the negative press this issue is getting. Hopefully he will be hired soon at a better airline. At the very least he has one hell of a TMAAT answer.
Last edited by cactusmike; 11-13-2015 at 09:41 AM.
11-13-2015, 10:16 AM
#627
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 525
I was at RAH for almost 7 years. I have been at Allegiant for more than a year now, and if you think that even with the new contract RAH is better than coming here you're full of it. I am home waaaayyyyy more here than I was commuting at RAH. But like it has been preached before YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN BASE. This place is a lot better than doing 4 to 5 legs per day being away from home 4-5 days per week. Your buddy can have that $hit He won't make anywhere near a second year FO here at Allegiant, even with the new contract. I never got anywhere near an average of 90-95 hours average credit, and if he was picking up open time to do that he was going directly against the union's instructions in doing so. (That would be like us if we picked up mission modes.) You're buddy was getting 15-16 days off a month when they are short some 500 pilots because nobody wanted to go there because of negotiations? Ya no I don't think so... maybe in September. Last time I checked everybody was working their asses off.
Furthurmore the deadhead pay still sucks compared to the rest of the industry. I've read their contract you only get 150% if you go over something like 85 hours per month FLIGHT TIME not credit (which you rarely get). Let's skip to the chase your buddy just wanted the bonus check and that's about it.
Stop talking for the entire pilot group, it's getting old and your bull**** only goes so far. Your opinion is your opinion, just because nobody else is getting on here and going all keyboard commando like you does not give you the right to scare people away because you think you're right.
Been here over a year. Would love a contract, but if you think your buddy made a good choice by staying at RAH and he had the chance to live in base at G4 you're smoking some good stuff.
Furthurmore the deadhead pay still sucks compared to the rest of the industry. I've read their contract you only get 150% if you go over something like 85 hours per month FLIGHT TIME not credit (which you rarely get). Let's skip to the chase your buddy just wanted the bonus check and that's about it.
Stop talking for the entire pilot group, it's getting old and your bull**** only goes so far. Your opinion is your opinion, just because nobody else is getting on here and going all keyboard commando like you does not give you the right to scare people away because you think you're right.
Been here over a year. Would love a contract, but if you think your buddy made a good choice by staying at RAH and he had the chance to live in base at G4 you're smoking some good stuff.
11-13-2015, 10:18 AM
#628
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 525
I was at RAH for almost 7 years. I have been at Allegiant for more than a year now, and if you think that even with the new contract RAH is better than coming here you're full of it. I am home waaaayyyyy more here than I was commuting at RAH. But like it has been preached before YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN BASE. This place is a lot better than doing 4 to 5 legs per day being away from home 4-5 days per week. Your buddy can have that $hit He won't make anywhere near a second year FO here at Allegiant, even with the new contract. I never got anywhere near an average of 90-95 hours average credit, and if he was picking up open time to do that he was going directly against the union's instructions in doing so. (That would be like us if we picked up mission modes.) You're buddy was getting 15-16 days off a month when they are short some 500 pilots because nobody wanted to go there because of negotiations? Ya no I don't think so... maybe in September. Last time I checked everybody was working their asses off.
Furthurmore the deadhead pay still sucks compared to the rest of the industry. I've read their contract you only get 150% if you go over something like 85 hours per month FLIGHT TIME not credit (which you rarely get). Let's skip to the chase your buddy just wanted the bonus check and that's about it.
Stop talking for the entire pilot group, it's getting old and your bull**** only goes so far. Your opinion is your opinion, just because nobody else is getting on here and going all keyboard commando like you does not give you the right to scare people away because you think you're right.
Been here over a year. Would love a contract, but if you think your buddy made a good choice by staying at RAH and he had the chance to live in base at G4 you're smoking some good stuff.
Furthurmore the deadhead pay still sucks compared to the rest of the industry. I've read their contract you only get 150% if you go over something like 85 hours per month FLIGHT TIME not credit (which you rarely get). Let's skip to the chase your buddy just wanted the bonus check and that's about it.
Stop talking for the entire pilot group, it's getting old and your bull**** only goes so far. Your opinion is your opinion, just because nobody else is getting on here and going all keyboard commando like you does not give you the right to scare people away because you think you're right.
Been here over a year. Would love a contract, but if you think your buddy made a good choice by staying at RAH and he had the chance to live in base at G4 you're smoking some good stuff.
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11-13-2015, 10:18 AM
#629
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: on the bench
Posts: 157
11-13-2015, 11:07 AM
#630
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
I certainly hope you guys get your issues settled with management. It's sad to see the abuse by incompetent managers go unchecked in this business. Too many lives are at stake for screw ups to be running an airline. It's a testament to your professionalism that no tragedies have occurred.
No one should go to work for an airline that will fire you for a safety decision. Even if the evac was unwarranted after the fact the worst that should have been done was a review by flight standards to go over the evac criteria. But erring on the side of caution should never be punished.
Unfortunately, the FARs may not help this captain. Being an at will employee is difficult to overcome when you are terminated. The FAA will take certificate action against a crew even if the company has told the crew their actions are legal, when, in fact, they have committed a violation. The company can self disclose for immunity but the crew is still hung. That has happened before. The FAA is of no help. Hopefully your union can do something but it's hard without a contract and formal language.
To be clear, I am not implying that the captain did anything wrong. I'm just pointing out that the FARs and the Feds may be of little help. His best ally right now is the negative press this issue is getting. Hopefully he will be hired soon at a better airline. At the very least he has one hell of a TMAAT answer.
No one should go to work for an airline that will fire you for a safety decision. Even if the evac was unwarranted after the fact the worst that should have been done was a review by flight standards to go over the evac criteria. But erring on the side of caution should never be punished.
Unfortunately, the FARs may not help this captain. Being an at will employee is difficult to overcome when you are terminated. The FAA will take certificate action against a crew even if the company has told the crew their actions are legal, when, in fact, they have committed a violation. The company can self disclose for immunity but the crew is still hung. That has happened before. The FAA is of no help. Hopefully your union can do something but it's hard without a contract and formal language.
To be clear, I am not implying that the captain did anything wrong. I'm just pointing out that the FARs and the Feds may be of little help. His best ally right now is the negative press this issue is getting. Hopefully he will be hired soon at a better airline. At the very least he has one hell of a TMAAT answer.
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