Allegiant Air
07-01-2016, 07:54 AM
#3352
Gets Tue/Wed and Sat Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 551
Qotsaautopilot is 100% spot on. For those of you who think we have scope, read it again. Make sure you read it from AAY perspective, not a pilot wishful thinking. This lack of strength in keeping our flying is a deal breaker on its own. The furlough statement simply means AAY can enter 'joint ventures', 'marketing' and so on wherever and whenever they want. They can stagnate us beyond belief, while at the same time, utilizing other airlines (foreign or domestic) in a carefully worded agreement.
Now is the time to vote no! Once we give up scope, it will never be amended in our favor again!
Now is the time to vote no! Once we give up scope, it will never be amended in our favor again!
07-01-2016, 08:26 AM
#3354
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MD-80 FO
Posts: 91
This part scares me guys.
" Nothing in this section shall preclude the Company from entering into a capacity purchase, code-share agreement, a marketing agreement, an interline agreement, a pro-rate, block space agreement, or joint venture, so long as such agreements do not result in the furlough of any of the Company’s Pilots."
I'm wondering if the reason they rushed out this deal and finally decided to negotiate has EVERYTHING to do with this paragraph. Could the rumors actually be true about code-sharing with regionals?
If they pen an agreement now with a regional, and we use negotiations and threat of strike to abolish their ability to sub-contract..... They will have millions to pay that regional to break the contract. But if we sign this contract..... We may never grow the seniority list by one more person while all the growth goes to RJ's.
Am I reading this correctly?
Why the hell is this paragraph in here?
" Nothing in this section shall preclude the Company from entering into a capacity purchase, code-share agreement, a marketing agreement, an interline agreement, a pro-rate, block space agreement, or joint venture, so long as such agreements do not result in the furlough of any of the Company’s Pilots."
I'm wondering if the reason they rushed out this deal and finally decided to negotiate has EVERYTHING to do with this paragraph. Could the rumors actually be true about code-sharing with regionals?
If they pen an agreement now with a regional, and we use negotiations and threat of strike to abolish their ability to sub-contract..... They will have millions to pay that regional to break the contract. But if we sign this contract..... We may never grow the seniority list by one more person while all the growth goes to RJ's.
Am I reading this correctly?
Why the hell is this paragraph in here?
07-01-2016, 08:40 AM
#3355
Banned
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 520
This part scares me guys.
" Nothing in this section shall preclude the Company from entering into a capacity purchase, code-share agreement, a marketing agreement, an interline agreement, a pro-rate, block space agreement, or joint venture, so long as such agreements do not result in the furlough of any of the Company’s Pilots."
I'm wondering if the reason they rushed out this deal and finally decided to negotiate has EVERYTHING to do with this paragraph. Could the rumors actually be true about code-sharing with regionals?
If they pen an agreement now with a regional, and we use negotiations and threat of strike to abolish their ability to sub-contract..... They will have millions to pay that regional to break the contract. But if we sign this contract..... We may never grow the seniority list by one more person while all the growth goes to RJ's.
Am I reading this correctly?
Why the hell is this paragraph in here?
" Nothing in this section shall preclude the Company from entering into a capacity purchase, code-share agreement, a marketing agreement, an interline agreement, a pro-rate, block space agreement, or joint venture, so long as such agreements do not result in the furlough of any of the Company’s Pilots."
I'm wondering if the reason they rushed out this deal and finally decided to negotiate has EVERYTHING to do with this paragraph. Could the rumors actually be true about code-sharing with regionals?
If they pen an agreement now with a regional, and we use negotiations and threat of strike to abolish their ability to sub-contract..... They will have millions to pay that regional to break the contract. But if we sign this contract..... We may never grow the seniority list by one more person while all the growth goes to RJ's.
Am I reading this correctly?
Why the hell is this paragraph in here?
07-01-2016, 08:50 AM
#3356
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 36
What regional are they going to be able to find who 1) has enough pilots to take on Allegiant flying and 2) Has costs low enough to make it economically feasible
The answer is none. They can't staff their current flying,let alone take on any more contracts. Plus the cost of 50 and 70 seaters is way higher then an Airbus. Even if the pilots fly it for free.
Allegiant has to have the lowest casm in the industry. They would lose money by codesharing.
Plus you'd only be talking about maybe 10-30 rjs. The costs for that small of a fleet would be absurd compared to your own.
The answer is none. They can't staff their current flying,let alone take on any more contracts. Plus the cost of 50 and 70 seaters is way higher then an Airbus. Even if the pilots fly it for free.
Allegiant has to have the lowest casm in the industry. They would lose money by codesharing.
Plus you'd only be talking about maybe 10-30 rjs. The costs for that small of a fleet would be absurd compared to your own.
07-01-2016, 08:54 AM
#3357
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 59
Crx, I beg to differ. We should indeed be looking into every angle of the supposed scope language. I don't see anything that limits them to training backup, or fleet issues whatsoever.
And as far as creativity? How did we become the most profitable airline? By a smart and creative MG. this is the big leagues! We need to have respect for our jobs, and the future of our pilots, whether or not you plan to stay or go. This is a permanent clause, and it allows 'the possibility' for code shares, joint ventures, etc. We need to have a non-vague scope, or we don't have a contract worth the cost of the paper its signed on!
We should second guess why there is this options available language in our scope section. It may not affect us in a negative way; BUT, if there is a loophole (and we all see them), then AAY CAN use it to their advantage, creating our detriment. It is the bottom of the ninth in the big show; I don't compare us to the minor leagues when we are voting on a contract that determines our long term future.
And as far as creativity? How did we become the most profitable airline? By a smart and creative MG. this is the big leagues! We need to have respect for our jobs, and the future of our pilots, whether or not you plan to stay or go. This is a permanent clause, and it allows 'the possibility' for code shares, joint ventures, etc. We need to have a non-vague scope, or we don't have a contract worth the cost of the paper its signed on!
We should second guess why there is this options available language in our scope section. It may not affect us in a negative way; BUT, if there is a loophole (and we all see them), then AAY CAN use it to their advantage, creating our detriment. It is the bottom of the ninth in the big show; I don't compare us to the minor leagues when we are voting on a contract that determines our long term future.
07-01-2016, 09:19 AM
#3358
Gets Tue/Wed and Sat Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 551
Crx, I beg to differ. We should indeed be looking into every angle of the supposed scope language. I don't see anything that limits them to training backup, or fleet issues whatsoever.
And as far as creativity? How did we become the most profitable airline? By a smart and creative MG. this is the big leagues! We need to have respect for our jobs, and the future of our pilots, whether or not you plan to stay or go. This is a permanent clause, and it allows 'the possibility' for code shares, joint ventures, etc. We need to have a non-vague scope, or we don't have a contract worth the cost of the paper its signed on!
We should second guess why there is this options available language in our scope section. It may not affect us in a negative way; BUT, if there is a loophole (and we all see them), then AAY CAN use it to their advantage, creating our detriment. It is the bottom of the ninth in the big show; I don't compare us to the minor leagues when we are voting on a contract that determines our long term future.
And as far as creativity? How did we become the most profitable airline? By a smart and creative MG. this is the big leagues! We need to have respect for our jobs, and the future of our pilots, whether or not you plan to stay or go. This is a permanent clause, and it allows 'the possibility' for code shares, joint ventures, etc. We need to have a non-vague scope, or we don't have a contract worth the cost of the paper its signed on!
We should second guess why there is this options available language in our scope section. It may not affect us in a negative way; BUT, if there is a loophole (and we all see them), then AAY CAN use it to their advantage, creating our detriment. It is the bottom of the ninth in the big show; I don't compare us to the minor leagues when we are voting on a contract that determines our long term future.
07-01-2016, 09:23 AM
#3359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: A319/A320/A321 CA
Posts: 363
This is some sloppy contract language (below). Black and white, this reads you'll be paid two times your hourly rate for any assignment from Voluntary Flying regardless of the scheduled or actual block hours (i.e. If your hourly rate is $135 you'll be paid $270 in total regardless of the VFN trip, whether it is 2 hours, 4hours, 8hours,etc). It should read that you'll be paid "at a 2:1 credit to scheduled or actual block, whichever is greater, for any assignment(s) flown under Voluntary Flying Notification."
You better hope the contact isn't peppered with language like this, or you're in for some real pain.
"Voluntary Flying Notification Pay:
A Pilot who is assigned to Duty from a Voluntary Flying Notification (VFN) shall be paid two times (2X) his Hourly Pay Rate for such assignment(s)."
You better hope the contact isn't peppered with language like this, or you're in for some real pain.
"Voluntary Flying Notification Pay:
A Pilot who is assigned to Duty from a Voluntary Flying Notification (VFN) shall be paid two times (2X) his Hourly Pay Rate for such assignment(s)."
07-01-2016, 09:28 AM
#3360
Gets Tue/Wed and Sat Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 551
This is some sloppy contract language (below). Black and white, this reads you'll be paid two times your hourly rate for any assignment from Voluntary Flying regardless of the scheduled or actual block hours (i.e. If your hourly rate is $135 you'll be paid $270 in total regardless of the VFN trip). It should read that you'll be paid "at a 2:1 credit to scheduled or actual block, whichever is greater, for any assignment(s) flown under Voluntary Flying Notification."
You better hope the contact isn't peppered with language like this, or you're in for some real pain.
"Voluntary Flying Notification Pay:
A Pilot who is assigned to Duty from a Voluntary Flying Notification (VFN) shall be paid two times (2X) his Hourly Pay Rate for such assignment(s)."
You better hope the contact isn't peppered with language like this, or you're in for some real pain.
"Voluntary Flying Notification Pay:
A Pilot who is assigned to Duty from a Voluntary Flying Notification (VFN) shall be paid two times (2X) his Hourly Pay Rate for such assignment(s)."
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