NikeBuddy

Umm...England did the right thing. Would you want your countries policies being dictated by a foreign entity? It may be a few years of pain...worth every bit.

IWalkJun12

NK made a offer 12/15 but $232 wasn't part of it.

gonyon

We have some good work rules but many/most of us don't like to work much on our days off or shift days off this do not make much more than the flat pay rate would equal.

It's true that some guys kill it. They tend to be the most vocal about how much money can be made here BUT you have to make some sacrifices to do that and I value my time with my family more than work so I prefer a higher payrate. I think most guys who are honest here would say the same


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smoothatFL410

Kinda what I was sayin'. There is no need other than greed to accept a substandard contract that locks you in for a minimum 5 years and closer to 10 before a 2nd contract comes out.


There are many ways to skin the single day off cat. The obvious one is staffing enough pilots to be able to cover everyone having more than one day off. But even if that were to not work out, there are others. For instance, OK, you want to give someone a single day off, then you must give them 3 or 4 on their next days off. And if the company is so adamant to have the option to punish the pilots during peak travel months by reducing the minimum days off, then also reduce the number of single days off allowed, especially for the other months of the year.

IMHO the NC was very dumb if they did not limit the numbers of single days off to more than 3 or 4 a month. Then again, from what I'm seeing I am also seeing in the leaked documentation some other juvenile negotiating mistakes that they shouldn't have made.

But, I do understand this is at this time, speculative. We will see the real deal this week. Everyone wants a good contract. Some want any contract. Hopefully most won't accept a bad contract. And if a regional airline flying RJ's or turboprops has better work rules, then to me at least, that smells like a bad contract.

Right now I'm just getting a whiff. I haven't opened the burning paper bag, yet.

KONZ

Serious question... if this TA is rejected, do the status quo provisions of the RLA apply?

My initial assessment is no, based on:

Williams v. Jacksonville Terminal Co., 315 U.S. 386, 399-400 (1942),

and

Virgin Atlantic Airways v. NMB, 956 F.2d 1245, 1253 (2d Cir. 1992), petition for cert. filed, 60 U.S.L.W.
3829 (May 19, 1992) (No. 91-1873).

The NMB seems to have steered clear of setting any more-recent rulings that set a precedent one way or the other on status quo when there wasn't already a ratified, amendable contract in place.

crxpilot

Oh god don't go down that rabbit hole again!

Der Meister

APC is a rabbit hole

smoothatFL410

Of course they apply. The provisions of the RLA are not thrown out simply because a vote turned down the TA. Remember, things could go both ways, and backfire, both ways. If the RLA goes out the window then the company can violate status quo then so can the employee group. IE, work slow-downs, strikes, etc. No way the NMB would allow it. It's not that easy to circumvent the RLA.

Status quo stays in effect until a contract is ratified. Now. That doesn't mean the two parties can't come up with letters of agreement to agree to temporary changes to the status quo. For instance, if it's decided it will take a year or more to negotiate a second TA, but the company wants to instill a pay raise the Union could agree to that in writing. But to change our insurance or work rules, for instance, without an LOA during the "laboratory period" could land them in court and easily be found in violation of the RLA, or ruled against them in arbitration.

Adam Smith

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain

Spirit F/O offer rates from 1-5:
$38.50
$72.05
$77.73
$83.96
$89.96

Allegiant second year rate $96.16

Don't know why you are compelled to flame, especially a new hire in training.

smoothatFL410

I don't know why you're quoting Spirit to me, I've never referred to Spirit. My thoughts on this contract have nothing to do with Spirit or anything they may have been offered.

They have to do with the fact that pay is not the only thing for me that will be a yes vote, as with what many people have said. As for flaming... I will reserve that for after the burning bag is opened, as I said.

The vote will happen in July and the pilots will speak then. At this point everyone's speculating, and opinions are being expressed based on the speculations. They are all certainly valid opinions. New hires or senior. From the looks of this, I'd say many new-hires will vote yes on this contract. And by new-hires, that probably means the junior Captains (3 years or less) and below. Right?