tailendcharlie

On the 'bus sometime during the arrival phase of flight there's a place for you enter the reported braking action into the MCDU when you state the landing runway conditions - if the numbers say you can't land then you're holding or diverting no matter what anyone tries to tell you. Can't imagine any Captain I know accepting anything less conservative. Been in that situation myself & never experienced any pushback from dispatch.

FirstClass

It's legal to land in freezing rain. But the moment you do, you are grounded.

I presume from the discussion that followed your post that Allegiant uses aerodata TLRs.

For takeoff, the dispatcher can select the following-
DRY, WET, STANDING WATER, SLUSH, WET SNOW, DRY SNOW, COMPACTED SNOW, SLIPPERY, PTOW PLUS xxx, PTOW PLUS xxx TAILWIND, PTOW PLUS xxx WINDSHEAR, engine and wing anti-ice.

For landing
DRY, WET, SNOW, SLUSH, STANDING WATER, ICE. Then with or without thrust reverser credit which you compute normally without by reg but contaminated runways apparently it is legal to use thrust reverser credit (one of southwest airlines mishaps) and it seems to be grey area.

Assuming you have acars, you should be able to get these without dispatcher creating the correct TLR, no ??

I believe the definitions for these conditions are standard as well per aerodata I think.

One other thing, I think I recall seeing braking action reports on the TLR but generally you find the landing distance to be the identical number for a wet or snow covered runway depending on FAIR or POOR reported, ie its a guess.

FirstClass

Regardless, you should be able to look up your landing performance in your POH.

9easy

Correct.. There is plenty of data in the plane to determine if a landing is safe, and even the most Podunk airport has an ASOS and usually some guy on CTAF. If either pilot thinks it's not safe, divert. Easy enough.

acebaxter

121.195 (d) requires 115 percent of the landing distance in 121.195(b) for wet or slippery runways. The 115 percent is the wet data in your airport analysis. This is the only landing performance computation required by the company to launch you by regulation to a contaminated runway. It by no means ensures you can safely land and stop the aircraft on that runway. That determination rests on the PIC. As others have said, if you don't think the operation is safe discuss your reasons with dispatch and come up with a different plan.

Quick quiz. What other situation would require you to plan an additional 15 percent even to a dry runway?

Jim

j3cub

4000 RVR or less of course!

FirstClass

To add to that, it is illegal to land at an airport where the only source of current wx info is awos or asos if it is out of service. The only other option is to have an official wx observer make an observation. ctaf/unicom people are not wx observers generally. Further, if you are on the ground and the asos is reporting "UP" or undefined precipitation, the PIC may make a determination of the precipitation. (for icing / HOT purposes)

planejay

Emergency landing for Billings Allegiant flight adds to string o - KTVQ.com | Q2 | Continuous News Coverage | Billings, MT

"Allegiant mechanics have determined it was necessary the aircraft be taken out of service, and the engine will be replaced."

Good jobs guys, good thing we got your professional opinion!

FirstClass

So the airplane had an explosion of the engine?

rokgpsman

Open letter from the Allegiant Flight Attendants Union:
----------------------------------------------------

Dear Allegiant Flight Attendants,

Today, the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO (TWU) received notice that the National Mediation Board (NMB) accepted the authorization cards filed by Steve Stoecker in an effort to decertify your elected Union, TWU Local 577, as your authorized bargaining representative under the Railway Labor Act. While we are disappointed in this decision, we will use this as an opportunity to strengthen our position to achieve a fair contract for you and all of the Flight Attendants of Allegiant Air.

It has been over five years since we voted to approve the TWU as our Union. During that time, your Negotiating Team, Base Representatives, and Shop Stewards have worked hard to secure a fair contract and represent you, our Members. In that journey we have achieved several successes. We secured the right for our Members to have a Shop Steward in disciplinary meetings. We have protested the abuse of our part-time Flight Attendants. We have developed a united front with our Pilots of Teamsters Local 1224, who are fighting the same battle we are for a safe and secure workplace. We have continued to address our safety concerns.

We were 90% of the way to a legal and binding contract that stood to improve your quality of life and that of your co-workers. We must now unite again to complete this journey. Unfortunately, this latest attempt to deny you a voice at the bargaining table and strip you of your advocates in the workplace has delayed our Local's efforts by almost a full year.

We have two choices. We can stand together as one, and send a message to Management that we will continue to fight for what we deserve, or we can continue to settle for the broken promises of the past. Allegiant Air Management has done this to us before, so please don't think this time around will be any different!

We will provide you with additional information at Transport Workers Union Local 577 > Home when the election is scheduled. If you have any questions, please contact your Base Representative or submit them at [email protected]. We deserve a fair voice in our workplace. Now we have another chance to say loud and clear that we stand together as the Members of Transport Workers Union Local 577!

In Unity,
Your TWU Local 577 Negotiating Team