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01-05-2016, 10:26 AM

#1121

FirstClass

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Joined APC: Oct 2014

Posts: 2,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

Seems to me all the issues we have with freezing rain year after year would create a policy not to fly when it is forecast.

Takeoff into freezing rain classified greater than light is prohibited at any airline.

01-05-2016, 11:55 AM

#1122

labbats

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Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: A320

Posts: 1,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Takeoff into freezing rain classified greater than light is prohibited at any airline.

Agreed. That would only serve to underline why I question being dispatched to fly and land in it. Several flights a year are and few have the data to leave even if it is only light freezing rain.

Then again we scheduled many MD80 flights in Decmeber to places they are incapable of departing without a fuel stop (or at all) if contaminated.

We also classify fields that are snowing as wet runways.

I'll stop now.

01-05-2016, 12:25 PM

#1123

tailendcharlie

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Joined APC: Oct 2010

Position: Airbus CA

Posts: 948

Well that's interesting 'cause yesterday we got TLR data for wet plus all 3 contamination levels. This is on the Airbus;presumably you're referring to the -80.

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

We also classify fields that are snowing as wet runways.

I'll stop now.

01-05-2016, 12:47 PM

#1124

labbats

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Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: A320

Posts: 1,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

Well that's interesting 'cause yesterday we got TLR data for wet plus all 3 contamination levels. This is on the Airbus;presumably you're referring to the -80.

No this is on the Airbus. Was told that policy is wet runway numbers regardless of snow in METAR or TAF. This was last month.

01-05-2016, 02:30 PM

#1125

j3cub

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Thread Starter

Joined APC: Jan 2009

Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

No this is on the Airbus. Was told that policy is wet runway numbers regardless of snow in METAR or TAF. This was last month.

Just because it's snowing doesn't mean a runway is contaminated. If it's snowing and it melts it's wet. Not compact snow or contaminated.

01-05-2016, 02:35 PM

#1126

tailendcharlie

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Joined APC: Oct 2010

Position: Airbus CA

Posts: 948

Yup.....there's snow with no contamination in which case use wet numbers but if ATIS & NOTAMS are stating a layer of contamination then you use the numbers for the appropriate contamination level. It's all spelled out in the Aerodata section of the manual.

01-05-2016, 03:25 PM

#1127

labbats

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Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: A320

Posts: 1,347

My concern is if they are reporting MU values then it should be classified as contaminated. They don't run those when it's raining.

I agree if it just started snowing on a warmer runway it would be wet... however if it has been snowing all day don't tell me the stopping distance is equal to rain.

Sorry to derail the thread with all of this. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about it all.

Last edited by labbats; 01-05-2016 at 03:44 PM.

01-05-2016, 04:10 PM

#1128

tailendcharlie

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Joined APC: Oct 2010

Position: Airbus CA

Posts: 948

You raise an interesting point in that for takeoff Mu values are not considered only contamination levels; Mu values are taken into account when running the landing data.

01-05-2016, 04:21 PM

#1129

labbats

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Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: A320

Posts: 1,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

You raise an interesting point in that for takeoff Mu values are not considered only contamination levels; Mu values are taken into account when running the landing data.

They use wet numbers for landing data when MU reports are given.

I have argued against this and was told that even though the field was being plowed and snow was constant that wet numbers applied. This came from several sources.

01-05-2016, 04:54 PM

#1130

j3cub

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Joined APC: Jan 2009

Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

If you aren't comfortable then don't go.

With that said, it's extremely difficult at any airline to determine runway conditions. Even the aerodata performance book lists specifications for different contaminants. Yet they are measurements in inches. I have never been to an airport that reported contaminant depth. Ultimately it's up to the PIC to determine.