IBT Election
01-28-2024, 11:48 AM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 947
A meeting where email questions - which they can filter (or not) at their discretion - receive priority.....live questions "time permitting".....
Maybe this will blow over & maybe there are what will turn out to be false rumors swirling around...AR needs to read the room. He's in danger of losing this pilot group.
Maybe this will blow over & maybe there are what will turn out to be false rumors swirling around...AR needs to read the room. He's in danger of losing this pilot group.
01-28-2024, 10:25 PM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: Gear Biatch
Posts: 301
Here are the facts
Here are some facts...
1- After the election, many union paying members filled a formail complaint (About 80 pilots) regarding their ballots missing/not being counted eventhough they sent them with plenty of time to get there. That's where the 115+ ballots found come into play.
2- Due to a formal complaint sent to JC42, the IBT sent investigators to question the local leadership. During the inquiry, a member of the leadership "blew the whistle" and requested protection; then turned in information to the IBT.
3- The IBT then sent two separate investigators shortly after to investigate "serious election misconduct". The forensic audit was suppose to take about 3 weeks, and it is now going to take approximately 5 weeks.
4- AR has gone "underground" along with his groopies, and do not engage, or answer any questions under the prejudice that it's nothing but inflamatory information, and there is no wrong doing. AR has gone to the extent to censoring union members for asking questions, or giving push back.
5- JR and his team (opposing candidates) Filed charges agains one of AR's members, alleging material violations if federak kaw and fiduciary responsibilities. This individual is most likely "lawyering up" as we speak.
6- During the election one of AR's "proxies" decided to leak a private conversation between a union member and the EXCO where the individual questioned the strategy of negotiations, and brought attention of how much money pilots were losing by so many delays in negotiations. This matterial was used against this member who was now a candidate of the opposing slate. When the pilot that "leaked" this information was questioned as to where and HOW he could obtain such material, both the pilot and EXCO denied sharing this information. Which to anyone with a brain, is impossible to just think, that this conversation walked on it's own out of a secure EXCO server. SOMEONE on AR's team most likely leaked it to slander, and persuade voters that the opposing member was willing to "take the money and run" instead of negotiate with the company.
7- After months of AR communicating to the membership that the company was stalling and they were ultimately responsible for not having a contract. As soon as elections started AR does a FULL 180 and informs the pilots that we were closer than ever to a contract (7th inning to be exact), which it a reason to make a change in leadership; it would only delay progress. Many members found this odd, and when questioning him about this, they were met with "force" by AR's proxies and other talking heads.
8- The union membership is incredibly divided, and more than ever, they've lost confidence/are losing confidence in AR. Especailly bc of the censorship happening on the official union FB page.
9- There will be hearings sometime in late FEB where ALL will be displayed. If there has been negligence, or willfull misconduct by the leadership, then they will most likely be removed, possibly charged and the union will find intself in trusteeship temporarily while new leadership is put in place.
At the end of the day, the current union of our pilots is broken, and NO, it wasn't done by management, NO they didn't throw a wrench into the gears. It was done by the failure, lack of leadership, and lack of communication/transparency of ONE MAN. AR has been running this union in a manner that has no real oversight. Supported by YES MEN, that brag about their experience and volunteer hours only to find themselves under two seperate, very serious investigations. The pilot will know soon enough, and HOPEFULLY confidence can be restored!
1- After the election, many union paying members filled a formail complaint (About 80 pilots) regarding their ballots missing/not being counted eventhough they sent them with plenty of time to get there. That's where the 115+ ballots found come into play.
2- Due to a formal complaint sent to JC42, the IBT sent investigators to question the local leadership. During the inquiry, a member of the leadership "blew the whistle" and requested protection; then turned in information to the IBT.
3- The IBT then sent two separate investigators shortly after to investigate "serious election misconduct". The forensic audit was suppose to take about 3 weeks, and it is now going to take approximately 5 weeks.
4- AR has gone "underground" along with his groopies, and do not engage, or answer any questions under the prejudice that it's nothing but inflamatory information, and there is no wrong doing. AR has gone to the extent to censoring union members for asking questions, or giving push back.
5- JR and his team (opposing candidates) Filed charges agains one of AR's members, alleging material violations if federak kaw and fiduciary responsibilities. This individual is most likely "lawyering up" as we speak.
6- During the election one of AR's "proxies" decided to leak a private conversation between a union member and the EXCO where the individual questioned the strategy of negotiations, and brought attention of how much money pilots were losing by so many delays in negotiations. This matterial was used against this member who was now a candidate of the opposing slate. When the pilot that "leaked" this information was questioned as to where and HOW he could obtain such material, both the pilot and EXCO denied sharing this information. Which to anyone with a brain, is impossible to just think, that this conversation walked on it's own out of a secure EXCO server. SOMEONE on AR's team most likely leaked it to slander, and persuade voters that the opposing member was willing to "take the money and run" instead of negotiate with the company.
7- After months of AR communicating to the membership that the company was stalling and they were ultimately responsible for not having a contract. As soon as elections started AR does a FULL 180 and informs the pilots that we were closer than ever to a contract (7th inning to be exact), which it a reason to make a change in leadership; it would only delay progress. Many members found this odd, and when questioning him about this, they were met with "force" by AR's proxies and other talking heads.
8- The union membership is incredibly divided, and more than ever, they've lost confidence/are losing confidence in AR. Especailly bc of the censorship happening on the official union FB page.
9- There will be hearings sometime in late FEB where ALL will be displayed. If there has been negligence, or willfull misconduct by the leadership, then they will most likely be removed, possibly charged and the union will find intself in trusteeship temporarily while new leadership is put in place.
At the end of the day, the current union of our pilots is broken, and NO, it wasn't done by management, NO they didn't throw a wrench into the gears. It was done by the failure, lack of leadership, and lack of communication/transparency of ONE MAN. AR has been running this union in a manner that has no real oversight. Supported by YES MEN, that brag about their experience and volunteer hours only to find themselves under two seperate, very serious investigations. The pilot will know soon enough, and HOPEFULLY confidence can be restored!
01-29-2024, 08:32 PM
#314
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 54
At this point Allegiant pilots would be better off non unionized. Y'all are obviously being held hostage by your own union.
Get rid of them and start over, the contract is a stinking turd in the toilet anyways… Time to flush it.
Immediate pay raise and maybe even a QOL raise
Get rid of them and start over, the contract is a stinking turd in the toilet anyways… Time to flush it.
Immediate pay raise and maybe even a QOL raise
01-30-2024, 05:44 AM
#315
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,151
At this point Allegiant pilots would be better off non unionized. Y'all are obviously being held hostage by your own union.
Get rid of them and start over, the contract is a stinking turd in the toilet anyways… Time to flush it.
Immediate pay raise and maybe even a QOL raise
Get rid of them and start over, the contract is a stinking turd in the toilet anyways… Time to flush it.
Immediate pay raise and maybe even a QOL raise
Naw he's just a wannabe.
A little about me :
I'm about to finish up my commercial multi certificate and i have recently been looking into regional airlines. I'm totally new to this ball game. I've done my best to educate myself about airlines but it all seems very tricky, kind of like they're all trying to take advantage of me and feed me lies.
I'm 22 years old with 340 hours total time, i have a paid off car, and i have a house i can live in for however long i need to. I live in West Palm Beach Florida.
Envoy offers to pay 5,000 for my CFI training at american flyers, and 5,000 in tuition reimbursement for all the training i've already paid for. Also, they claim they'll stick me at american flyers instructing while i build my hours up to ATP minimums. They want to fly me out to Dallas after i get my commercial for an interview.
All of this and in return they want me to sign a 1 year contract with them.
i've read a lot of horrible things about regional airlines, and i've read some good things. The good things mainly coming from the company.
To me this seems to be a great deal with envoy but i want to hear the TRUTH about envoy and their pipeline program.
Are there any other regional airlines that offer deals like this?
What Should i be looking for when choosing a regional airline to work for, other than pay?
Since i have a house, commuting will be my best bet. Is commuting all that bad? If i do commute, does the company offer me a flight directly to my base? I live 5 mins from PBI.
If i sign a 1 year contract with them now, guaranteeing me a job, is it possible that envoy will raise their pay afterwards and ill be stuck making $26 an hour?
I have TONS of questions, and i know there is a lot of information on this website its just very hard to seek through it all. Like i said this is all very new to me and a little intimidating honestly, it has made me wonder if i've made the right career choice.
Oh, and how long is someone looking at being on reserve? I've read that people are 5 year envoy FO's and they're still on reserve. I thought that was like your first 2 months type of thing.
What can someone as a first year FO actually expect to make? some people say as low as 1,000 a month. At that rate im better off being an instructor.
I'm looking at being an instructor for at least a year, and i know a lot of things could possibly change in that time. Is a year from now a good time to get into a regional airline? Have i already missed the best time period to get on board?
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this, i just dont want to make a wrong decision and mess up the next 10 years of my life, i dont want to be taken advantage of and lied to. I feel like a small fish in a tank full of sharks. I appreciate any advice, thank you
I'm about to finish up my commercial multi certificate and i have recently been looking into regional airlines. I'm totally new to this ball game. I've done my best to educate myself about airlines but it all seems very tricky, kind of like they're all trying to take advantage of me and feed me lies.
I'm 22 years old with 340 hours total time, i have a paid off car, and i have a house i can live in for however long i need to. I live in West Palm Beach Florida.
Envoy offers to pay 5,000 for my CFI training at american flyers, and 5,000 in tuition reimbursement for all the training i've already paid for. Also, they claim they'll stick me at american flyers instructing while i build my hours up to ATP minimums. They want to fly me out to Dallas after i get my commercial for an interview.
All of this and in return they want me to sign a 1 year contract with them.
i've read a lot of horrible things about regional airlines, and i've read some good things. The good things mainly coming from the company.
To me this seems to be a great deal with envoy but i want to hear the TRUTH about envoy and their pipeline program.
Are there any other regional airlines that offer deals like this?
What Should i be looking for when choosing a regional airline to work for, other than pay?
Since i have a house, commuting will be my best bet. Is commuting all that bad? If i do commute, does the company offer me a flight directly to my base? I live 5 mins from PBI.
If i sign a 1 year contract with them now, guaranteeing me a job, is it possible that envoy will raise their pay afterwards and ill be stuck making $26 an hour?
I have TONS of questions, and i know there is a lot of information on this website its just very hard to seek through it all. Like i said this is all very new to me and a little intimidating honestly, it has made me wonder if i've made the right career choice.
Oh, and how long is someone looking at being on reserve? I've read that people are 5 year envoy FO's and they're still on reserve. I thought that was like your first 2 months type of thing.
What can someone as a first year FO actually expect to make? some people say as low as 1,000 a month. At that rate im better off being an instructor.
I'm looking at being an instructor for at least a year, and i know a lot of things could possibly change in that time. Is a year from now a good time to get into a regional airline? Have i already missed the best time period to get on board?
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this, i just dont want to make a wrong decision and mess up the next 10 years of my life, i dont want to be taken advantage of and lied to. I feel like a small fish in a tank full of sharks. I appreciate any advice, thank you
01-30-2024, 08:06 AM
#316
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 54
Wow thanks for the trip down memory lane. What a smart kid I was. It’s amazing how much more successful I have been than you in such a short duration of time.
That being said, I can’t believe I’m actually having the thoughts reading through this forum that maybe MG wasn’t the evil guy all along, maybe it was AR.
flush the turd… start over
That being said, I can’t believe I’m actually having the thoughts reading through this forum that maybe MG wasn’t the evil guy all along, maybe it was AR.
flush the turd… start over
01-30-2024, 08:55 AM
#317
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,151
01-31-2024, 05:50 AM
#319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,007
Here are some facts...
1- After the election, many union paying members filled a formail complaint (About 80 pilots) regarding their ballots missing/not being counted eventhough they sent them with plenty of time to get there. That's where the 115+ ballots found come into play.
2- Due to a formal complaint sent to JC42, the IBT sent investigators to question the local leadership. During the inquiry, a member of the leadership "blew the whistle" and requested protection; then turned in information to the IBT.
3- The IBT then sent two separate investigators shortly after to investigate "serious election misconduct". The forensic audit was suppose to take about 3 weeks, and it is now going to take approximately 5 weeks.
4- AR has gone "underground" along with his groopies, and do not engage, or answer any questions under the prejudice that it's nothing but inflamatory information, and there is no wrong doing. AR has gone to the extent to censoring union members for asking questions, or giving push back.
5- JR and his team (opposing candidates) Filed charges agains one of AR's members, alleging material violations if federak kaw and fiduciary responsibilities. This individual is most likely "lawyering up" as we speak.
6- During the election one of AR's "proxies" decided to leak a private conversation between a union member and the EXCO where the individual questioned the strategy of negotiations, and brought attention of how much money pilots were losing by so many delays in negotiations. This matterial was used against this member who was now a candidate of the opposing slate. When the pilot that "leaked" this information was questioned as to where and HOW he could obtain such material, both the pilot and EXCO denied sharing this information. Which to anyone with a brain, is impossible to just think, that this conversation walked on it's own out of a secure EXCO server. SOMEONE on AR's team most likely leaked it to slander, and persuade voters that the opposing member was willing to "take the money and run" instead of negotiate with the company.
7- After months of AR communicating to the membership that the company was stalling and they were ultimately responsible for not having a contract. As soon as elections started AR does a FULL 180 and informs the pilots that we were closer than ever to a contract (7th inning to be exact), which it a reason to make a change in leadership; it would only delay progress. Many members found this odd, and when questioning him about this, they were met with "force" by AR's proxies and other talking heads.
8- The union membership is incredibly divided, and more than ever, they've lost confidence/are losing confidence in AR. Especailly bc of the censorship happening on the official union FB page.
9- There will be hearings sometime in late FEB where ALL will be displayed. If there has been negligence, or willfull misconduct by the leadership, then they will most likely be removed, possibly charged and the union will find intself in trusteeship temporarily while new leadership is put in place.
At the end of the day, the current union of our pilots is broken, and NO, it wasn't done by management, NO they didn't throw a wrench into the gears. It was done by the failure, lack of leadership, and lack of communication/transparency of ONE MAN. AR has been running this union in a manner that has no real oversight. Supported by YES MEN, that brag about their experience and volunteer hours only to find themselves under two seperate, very serious investigations. The pilot will know soon enough, and HOPEFULLY confidence can be restored!
1- After the election, many union paying members filled a formail complaint (About 80 pilots) regarding their ballots missing/not being counted eventhough they sent them with plenty of time to get there. That's where the 115+ ballots found come into play.
2- Due to a formal complaint sent to JC42, the IBT sent investigators to question the local leadership. During the inquiry, a member of the leadership "blew the whistle" and requested protection; then turned in information to the IBT.
3- The IBT then sent two separate investigators shortly after to investigate "serious election misconduct". The forensic audit was suppose to take about 3 weeks, and it is now going to take approximately 5 weeks.
4- AR has gone "underground" along with his groopies, and do not engage, or answer any questions under the prejudice that it's nothing but inflamatory information, and there is no wrong doing. AR has gone to the extent to censoring union members for asking questions, or giving push back.
5- JR and his team (opposing candidates) Filed charges agains one of AR's members, alleging material violations if federak kaw and fiduciary responsibilities. This individual is most likely "lawyering up" as we speak.
6- During the election one of AR's "proxies" decided to leak a private conversation between a union member and the EXCO where the individual questioned the strategy of negotiations, and brought attention of how much money pilots were losing by so many delays in negotiations. This matterial was used against this member who was now a candidate of the opposing slate. When the pilot that "leaked" this information was questioned as to where and HOW he could obtain such material, both the pilot and EXCO denied sharing this information. Which to anyone with a brain, is impossible to just think, that this conversation walked on it's own out of a secure EXCO server. SOMEONE on AR's team most likely leaked it to slander, and persuade voters that the opposing member was willing to "take the money and run" instead of negotiate with the company.
7- After months of AR communicating to the membership that the company was stalling and they were ultimately responsible for not having a contract. As soon as elections started AR does a FULL 180 and informs the pilots that we were closer than ever to a contract (7th inning to be exact), which it a reason to make a change in leadership; it would only delay progress. Many members found this odd, and when questioning him about this, they were met with "force" by AR's proxies and other talking heads.
8- The union membership is incredibly divided, and more than ever, they've lost confidence/are losing confidence in AR. Especailly bc of the censorship happening on the official union FB page.
9- There will be hearings sometime in late FEB where ALL will be displayed. If there has been negligence, or willfull misconduct by the leadership, then they will most likely be removed, possibly charged and the union will find intself in trusteeship temporarily while new leadership is put in place.
At the end of the day, the current union of our pilots is broken, and NO, it wasn't done by management, NO they didn't throw a wrench into the gears. It was done by the failure, lack of leadership, and lack of communication/transparency of ONE MAN. AR has been running this union in a manner that has no real oversight. Supported by YES MEN, that brag about their experience and volunteer hours only to find themselves under two seperate, very serious investigations. The pilot will know soon enough, and HOPEFULLY confidence can be restored!
First, this term "forensic audit" is a made up term by some pilots. The union is having a normal audit required by the Department of Labor conducted by Teamsters. The audit has nothing to do with any investigation or election protests. I don't know for sure, but I think the audit would have occured regardless of whether there was an election or not. At the end of the audit, IBT will submit a list of improvement items to the union.
Second, regarding an investigation, there is one occurring from a claim about destroying election documents. But the election was conducted by a third party Global Election Services who retains all election documents. Even knowing this, Teamsters are still required to investigate this claim. To date, no charges have been filed against the Eboard.
Third, there are several protests regarding the election. Those protests are not part of the aforementioned audit or investigation. Those protests will be investigated by the Teamsters JC42. Having said that, this investigation has not even begun yet, there's not even a date to start as far as I know. Again, the election was conducted by third party Global Election Services. If this JC42 investigation comes up with something, it would be directed at the third party not the union members. The protests revolve around a claim that 115 ballots were not counted. But according to the Q4 quarterly meeting call last night, GES has no knowledge of these ballots. AR has no knowledge at all of any issues as all protests reside with JC42, and even if he did know, he can't do anything as it resides with JC42 (I am paraphrasing from the call).
01-31-2024, 06:44 AM
#320
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 154
I am not looking to disparage you or your thoughtful post, but I belive you may be conflating some things here. I am only pointing this out because your post says these are facts. When you say facts, you imply that the information is final, accepted, or undisputed.
First, this term "forensic audit" is a made up term by some pilots. The union is having a normal audit required by the Department of Labor conducted by Teamsters. The audit has nothing to do with any investigation or election protests. I don't know for sure, but I think the audit would have occured regardless of whether there was an election or not. At the end of the audit, IBT will submit a list of improvement items to the union.
Second, regarding an investigation, there is one occurring from a claim about destroying election documents. But the election was conducted by a third party Global Election Services who retains all election documents. Even knowing this, Teamsters are still required to investigate this claim. To date, no charges have been filed against the Eboard.
Third, there are several protests regarding the election. Those protests are not part of the aforementioned audit or investigation. Those protests will be investigated by the Teamsters JC42. Having said that, this investigation has not even begun yet, there's not even a date to start as far as I know. Again, the election was conducted by third party Global Election Services. If this JC42 investigation comes up with something, it would be directed at the third party not the union members. The protests revolve around a claim that 115 ballots were not counted. But according to the Q4 quarterly meeting call last night, GES has no knowledge of these ballots. AR has no knowledge at all of any issues as all protests reside with JC42, and even if he did know, he can't do anything as it resides with JC42 (I am paraphrasing from the call).
First, this term "forensic audit" is a made up term by some pilots. The union is having a normal audit required by the Department of Labor conducted by Teamsters. The audit has nothing to do with any investigation or election protests. I don't know for sure, but I think the audit would have occured regardless of whether there was an election or not. At the end of the audit, IBT will submit a list of improvement items to the union.
Second, regarding an investigation, there is one occurring from a claim about destroying election documents. But the election was conducted by a third party Global Election Services who retains all election documents. Even knowing this, Teamsters are still required to investigate this claim. To date, no charges have been filed against the Eboard.
Third, there are several protests regarding the election. Those protests are not part of the aforementioned audit or investigation. Those protests will be investigated by the Teamsters JC42. Having said that, this investigation has not even begun yet, there's not even a date to start as far as I know. Again, the election was conducted by third party Global Election Services. If this JC42 investigation comes up with something, it would be directed at the third party not the union members. The protests revolve around a claim that 115 ballots were not counted. But according to the Q4 quarterly meeting call last night, GES has no knowledge of these ballots. AR has no knowledge at all of any issues as all protests reside with JC42, and even if he did know, he can't do anything as it resides with JC42 (I am paraphrasing from the call).
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