New Hire question
12-08-2022, 07:46 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: A320
Posts: 195
Even with a 4 leg day 3x in a row if you live close enough to the airport you’ll be home to relax. Eat dinner at home see your wife & kids etc. Overnights mean 4 leg day wait for hotel van wait for hotel key eat hotel/restaurant food 5am hotel van getting through security walking around in big airports to find your gate. All that stuff that a lot of the allegiant people don’t wanna deal with. That’s why people still apply to this place and people here are getting High blood pressure tryin to decide whether to leave or not.
12-08-2022, 09:15 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 222
12-08-2022, 10:17 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
I honestly don't what to believe with the work rules rumors i'm hearing. union sources say that they are only looking for industry standard work rules but then AR has talked about zero percent unstack for the last three years... so is the union looking for industry standard and management is being obtuse (most likely) or is AR digging in his heels on unstack which no airline in the industry has (unlikely imo - can't imagine he would be that naïve)?
from what i'm hearing, management's early offers in January/February were pathetic and laughably out of touch. since Alaska's TA, management has upped the rates/retirement from where they were but it is still less than alaska's. So i believe management will read the room and come to their senses with some realistic rates/retirement but the difference between management and union on work rules might as well be the pacific ocean.
side note: delta's unstack protects top 30% and that is highest in the industry that i've seen.
12-08-2022, 10:45 AM
#125
Voice of Reason
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Uncomfortable
Posts: 481
The pay/retirement will absolutely be there. MG knows that is the only way this place grows. the bigger question is whether we get any work rules?
I honestly don't what to believe with the work rules rumors i'm hearing. union sources say that they are only looking for industry standard work rules but then AR has talked about zero percent unstack for the last three years... so is the union looking for industry standard and management is being obtuse (most likely) or is AR digging in his heels on unstack which no airline in the industry has (unlikely imo - can't imagine he would be that naïve)?
from what i'm hearing, management's early offers in January/February were pathetic and laughably out of touch. since Alaska's TA, management has upped the rates/retirement from where they were but it is still less than alaska's. So i believe management will read the room and come to their senses with some realistic rates/retirement but the difference between management and union on work rules might as well be the pacific ocean.
side note: delta's unstack protects top 30% and that is highest in the industry that i've seen.
I honestly don't what to believe with the work rules rumors i'm hearing. union sources say that they are only looking for industry standard work rules but then AR has talked about zero percent unstack for the last three years... so is the union looking for industry standard and management is being obtuse (most likely) or is AR digging in his heels on unstack which no airline in the industry has (unlikely imo - can't imagine he would be that naïve)?
from what i'm hearing, management's early offers in January/February were pathetic and laughably out of touch. since Alaska's TA, management has upped the rates/retirement from where they were but it is still less than alaska's. So i believe management will read the room and come to their senses with some realistic rates/retirement but the difference between management and union on work rules might as well be the pacific ocean.
side note: delta's unstack protects top 30% and that is highest in the industry that i've seen.
The way other companies get around that limitation by mandating a staffing model. Our management has been adamantly opposed to having a staffing requirement (for obvious understaffing reasons).
One of two things needs to happen: (1) 100% unstacking or (2) a Staffing model.
Also, (if I understand it correctly) it's only line holders that would be 0%. I think the reserve lines are used to cover the flights (i.e. 100% unstacked). If that's the case, essentially we would be 10-30% unstacked (depending on reserve lines) if you counted all pilots in the bid.
12-08-2022, 12:28 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
One key thing to note about the stacking/unstacking issue. The company has decided that NavBlue is the PBS system that they want to use (after bankrupting SmartPref). NavBlue only offers 100% or 0% unstacking. So you either give the company the ability to disregard 100% of your seniority/bid or you give them 0% ability to disregard your seniority/bid. For my vote, I'll take 0%.
The way other companies get around that limitation by mandating a staffing model. Our management has been adamantly opposed to having a staffing requirement (for obvious understaffing reasons).
One of two things needs to happen: (1) 100% unstacking or (2) a Staffing model.
Also, (if I understand it correctly) it's only line holders that would be 0%. I think the reserve lines are used to cover the flights (i.e. 100% unstacked). If that's the case, essentially we would be 10-30% unstacked (depending on reserve lines) if you counted all pilots in the bid.
The way other companies get around that limitation by mandating a staffing model. Our management has been adamantly opposed to having a staffing requirement (for obvious understaffing reasons).
One of two things needs to happen: (1) 100% unstacking or (2) a Staffing model.
Also, (if I understand it correctly) it's only line holders that would be 0%. I think the reserve lines are used to cover the flights (i.e. 100% unstacked). If that's the case, essentially we would be 10-30% unstacked (depending on reserve lines) if you counted all pilots in the bid.
Besides: Don't Jetblue, Spirit, Alaska, Frontier, and others all use Navblue for PBS? you're telling me all of those airlines' management can disregard 100% of the pilots' bid? Again, i'm calling BS. There has to be a reason no other airline has a 0% unstack and yet navblue is still a regularly used PBS. We can talk about industry standard all we want for work rules but i hope the union is not overplaying their hand on this, i just don't see how that helps anyone. No way MG will allow allegiant to be the first and only airline with a 0% unstack in a PBS - again Delta is the highest at 30%.
Either way, you seem to believe that AR is still on his 0% unstack position and that hasn't changed during negotiations? i honestly don't know because my sources either don't know or won't confirm what the gulf is for work rules they just say we its light year apart for PBS. Your post makes me think that the unstack/PBS stuff is the huge disconnect with work rules. if that is true then i was probably wrong about getting a contract by 2024 at the earliest - we won't get one until 2026 at the earliest.
Also: what is smartpref? how did we bankrupt it? i see something about crewing solutions and smart pref but that's it on the google machine.
last one: why isn't any of this stuff in the contract comparison? why doesn't the union put the other airlines staffing models into their contract comparison slide show? hearing AR try to explain this piece away on his recent video makes me more pessimistic, he strikes me as trying to reinvent the wheel or something with this unstack stuff. no other airline has it and to bring up united's staffing model just seems bizarre, like he's grasping at straws. we have enough to fix in this contract why draw a line in the sand that goes way beyond what any other airline has...
this whole is starting to smell like a d*ck measuring contest between AR and MG and the losers will be the pilots.
Last edited by captnate702; 12-08-2022 at 12:48 PM.
12-08-2022, 01:27 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 158
Even with a 4 leg day 3x in a row if you live close enough to the airport you’ll be home to relax. Eat dinner at home see your wife & kids etc. Overnights mean 4 leg day wait for hotel van wait for hotel key eat hotel/restaurant food 5am hotel van getting through security walking around in big airports to find your gate. All that stuff that a lot of the allegiant people don’t wanna deal with. That’s why people still apply to this place and people here are getting High blood pressure tryin to decide whether to leave or not.
12-08-2022, 01:57 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
12-08-2022, 02:51 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 948
Even with a 4 leg day 3x in a row if you live close enough to the airport you’ll be home to relax. Eat dinner at home see your wife & kids etc. Overnights mean 4 leg day wait for hotel van wait for hotel key eat hotel/restaurant food 5am hotel van getting through security walking around in big airports to find your gate. All that stuff that a lot of the allegiant people don’t wanna deal with. That’s why people still apply to this place and people here are getting High blood pressure tryin to decide whether to leave or not.
12-08-2022, 06:56 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Captain for Skyhawks
Posts: 479
I'm calling a bluff on your post: How does staffing model prevent 100% of my seniority being disregarded? If 100% of my seniority can be disregarded in my bid then how does a staffing model prevent that from happening? Even with extra pilots, if they can just disregard my seniority then the staffing model is irrelevant? what am i missing?
Besides: Don't Jetblue, Spirit, Alaska, Frontier, and others all use Navblue for PBS? you're telling me all of those airlines' management can disregard 100% of the pilots' bid? Again, i'm calling BS. There has to be a reason no other airline has a 0% unstack and yet navblue is still a regularly used PBS. We can talk about industry standard all we want for work rules but i hope the union is not overplaying their hand on this, i just don't see how that helps anyone. No way MG will allow allegiant to be the first and only airline with a 0% unstack in a PBS - again Delta is the highest at 30%.
Either way, you seem to believe that AR is still on his 0% unstack position and that hasn't changed during negotiations? i honestly don't know because my sources either don't know or won't confirm what the gulf is for work rules they just say we its light year apart for PBS. Your post makes me think that the unstack/PBS stuff is the huge disconnect with work rules. if that is true then i was probably wrong about getting a contract by 2024 at the earliest - we won't get one until 2026 at the earliest.
Also: what is smartpref? how did we bankrupt it? i see something about crewing solutions and smart pref but that's it on the google machine.
last one: why isn't any of this stuff in the contract comparison? why doesn't the union put the other airlines staffing models into their contract comparison slide show? hearing AR try to explain this piece away on his recent video makes me more pessimistic, he strikes me as trying to reinvent the wheel or something with this unstack stuff. no other airline has it and to bring up united's staffing model just seems bizarre, like he's grasping at straws. we have enough to fix in this contract why draw a line in the sand that goes way beyond what any other airline has...
this whole is starting to smell like a d*ck measuring contest between AR and MG and the losers will be the pilots.
Besides: Don't Jetblue, Spirit, Alaska, Frontier, and others all use Navblue for PBS? you're telling me all of those airlines' management can disregard 100% of the pilots' bid? Again, i'm calling BS. There has to be a reason no other airline has a 0% unstack and yet navblue is still a regularly used PBS. We can talk about industry standard all we want for work rules but i hope the union is not overplaying their hand on this, i just don't see how that helps anyone. No way MG will allow allegiant to be the first and only airline with a 0% unstack in a PBS - again Delta is the highest at 30%.
Either way, you seem to believe that AR is still on his 0% unstack position and that hasn't changed during negotiations? i honestly don't know because my sources either don't know or won't confirm what the gulf is for work rules they just say we its light year apart for PBS. Your post makes me think that the unstack/PBS stuff is the huge disconnect with work rules. if that is true then i was probably wrong about getting a contract by 2024 at the earliest - we won't get one until 2026 at the earliest.
Also: what is smartpref? how did we bankrupt it? i see something about crewing solutions and smart pref but that's it on the google machine.
last one: why isn't any of this stuff in the contract comparison? why doesn't the union put the other airlines staffing models into their contract comparison slide show? hearing AR try to explain this piece away on his recent video makes me more pessimistic, he strikes me as trying to reinvent the wheel or something with this unstack stuff. no other airline has it and to bring up united's staffing model just seems bizarre, like he's grasping at straws. we have enough to fix in this contract why draw a line in the sand that goes way beyond what any other airline has...
this whole is starting to smell like a d*ck measuring contest between AR and MG and the losers will be the pilots.
Staffing model could require more reserves. or instead of the Fnt crew doing the Fnt Sav turn it can have the Sav pilots do it since they don’t have as many lines. Or vice versa. Or a 3 leg between dsm Pgd aus then dsm could be moved around.
Currently with high demand must work days there is 100% ustacking because the most senior person will have their days off prevented.
Honestly having it work from the most junior and go up is fine. The most junior works christmas. The big deal is when the company uses every month and does it outside reverse seniority.
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